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Buying an IBM Mainframe

blog.mainframe.dev

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Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#41

Post by ithkuil »

bluecmd wrote: post #36
badpun wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much cheaper it is to implement software for one, huge machine that „just works”, vs the usual way of implementing for a network of distributed machines. Distributed programming is NOT easy, and, even if the hard parts are supposedly implemented by various protocols/frameworks, these solutions constrain the way you can program and also have a ton of „interesting” failure states - just take a look at logs…

Author here, I agree 100%. It is just a different way of building software, which is why I find these things so interesting. It challenges my worldview and thus I want to learn more about its upsides and downsides. CICS and IMS definitely made it easy to create scalable software decades ago. It is not that different from the frameworks we have invented to make distributed systems viable that you mention, which I find…

> Anyway, I will stop here but I could go on for hours :-)

Oh please go on for hours; I'd love to hear more. Any format (blog or just semi-structured brain dumps in comment threads) will feed thoughts :-)

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#42

Post by rbanffy »

bluecmd wrote: post #29
kev009 wrote: post #14

It's a lot cheaper in to do this in the US and with a long term view, my total outlay was under $3000 for a z800, z114, ds6800 all in with transportation. I also temporarily had two DS8870s but resold them because they were worth a lot more than I paid and I will pick up another for cheaper over the course of this year. Both of my frames have HMCs, the z114 was even IBM banded and "MSQ" maintenance service qualified…

Hi kev! Thanks for your comments, you are 100% right. Yes, living in the states make this hobby waaay easier. The surplus auctions help as well, having various goverments with various languages going in Europe does not make it as easy :-). Was $3000 your outlay for the system + the DS6800? Or just the shipping? That is a great find in that case! I just want to correct a small thing: You need SEs (the frame mounted la…

> Yes, living in the states make this hobby waaay easier.

It's unbelievable how thoroughly Europeans recycle their old computers. I can't find anything.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#44

Post by _lwad »

tyingq wrote: post #40
_b8r0 wrote: post #15

It's not the same, but if you'd like to have a go at mainframe technologies you can do it with a Pi Zero: https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/my-raspberry-pi-thinks... Once you have the basic emulator setup working, check out the Turnkey system below. It's MVS 3.8 so not current Z/OS. If you google around for z/os ADCD, you might find an actual Z/OS CD to try next. http://wotho.ethz.ch/tk4-/

"MVS 3.8 so not current Z/OS." Bit of an understatement, MVS 3.8j was released in 1981.

You'd be amazed at how little the underlying ecosystem has changed over the decades. Because it basically keeps compatibility forever, software that was written in the 60's can still run on modern machines. Because of this, learning using 80's software in the mainframe world is not too bad. For example, I keep a book on MVS on my desk from the 80's for reference, and most of the time it suffices for what I need to consult.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#46

Post by tyingq »

_lwad wrote: post #44
tyingq wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"MVS 3.8 so not current Z/OS." Bit of an understatement, MVS 3.8j was released in 1981.

You'd be amazed at how little the underlying ecosystem has changed over the decades. Because it basically keeps compatibility forever, software that was written in the 60's can still run on modern machines. Because of this, learning using 80's software in the mainframe world is not too bad. For example, I keep a book on MVS on my desk from the 80's for reference, and most of the time it suffices for what I need to co…

At a high level, I suppose, but for example...3.8j is 24 bit versus the current z/os 64 bit.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#48

Post by hsnewman »

altmind wrote: post #26

Are there any sucess virtualizing z/OS on x86_64? This mainframe is quite anemic even by modern desktop standarts.

If you do go with virtualization, in addition to Hercules, you can possibly find a copy of the ADCD, which is a full release of the OS on the cheap.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#49

Post by bluecmd »

leokennis wrote: post #39
bluecmd wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source on that new banks do not use mainframes? I'd love to learn what new banks use to talk to older banks.

From an EU perspective, most interbank communication for SEPA is through XML following PACS or CAMT xsd’s (so there’s a PACS format to transfer money, a CAMT format to inquire on the status of a payment etc.) sent via an intermediary clearing house. Used to be huge XML batches, but now moving to small XML messages. Internationally also “MT” messages are used, which is also a file with specified format. So it doesn’t…

Cool! Thanks for sharing! I have heard that some banks interconnect directly with IMS but I have no source for that.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#50

Post by tyingq »

hsnewman wrote: post #48
altmind wrote: post #26

Are there any sucess virtualizing z/OS on x86_64? This mainframe is quite anemic even by modern desktop standarts.

If you do go with virtualization, in addition to Hercules, you can possibly find a copy of the ADCD, which is a full release of the OS on the cheap.

"which is a full release of the OS on the cheap"

It's a $900/year subscription if you go the legit route, and not "approved" to use with Hercules. You're supposed to pay ~$4k for zPDT to be fully legit. Thus, most hobbyist use is pirated torrents of ADCD on Hercules.

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