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Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

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Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#41

Post by macspoofing »

pier25 wrote: post #22

It's terrible to think that maybe if Exxon and others didn't invest in lobbying and disinformation campaigns against climate change maybe humanity would have started acting 30 years earlier. It's 2019 and humanity is barely starting to think about acting. Global CO2 emissions keep growing as if we were in "business as usual". Humanity needs to realize the magnitude of the problem. Climate change is, by far, the bigge…

> maybe humanity would have started acting 30 years earlier.

I wouldn't bet on it. We know we can cut emissions today by investing in nuclear ... and nothing. We could have invested in nuclear power 30 years ago and prevented trillions of tons of CO2 from being emitted.

Instead we decided wind/solar/natural gas (and those are always package deal) is our best bet at fighting climate change.

>For example, we can't keep having irrational leaders that ignore basic scientific facts.

Facts like nuclear power is by far the best and only way to effectively fight climate change?

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#42

Post by Spooky23 »

mc32 wrote: post #37
cbHXBY1D wrote: post #33

Almost everyone on HN recognizes that climate change is an existential threat to (most) life on earth. There is less agreement on how to mitigate it's effects. One solution which I favor is nationalization of US oil companies. While hardly discussed in the US, it's a solution that is currently being discussed in the UK and has been done by many different countries, though usually because of the legacy of imperialism…

So Venezuela nationalized their petroleum, I think Mexico did something similar. And Iran. I don’t see where those actions have kerbed the export or internal use of petroleum.

Goals there were different.

Nationalizing those industries and using tariffs to stabilize at a higher price would accelerate adoption of better technology. You could implode demand for natural gas and fuel oil by raising prices and capturing profits to capitalize heat pump adoption in the northeast, for example.

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#43

Post by murat124 »

Former Exxon CEO and former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson famously stated in 2013 during a meeting with Exxonmobil shareholders: "What good is it to save the planet if humanity suffers"[1]. He explained, "As a species that’s why we’re all still here: we have spent our entire existence adapting. So we will adapt to this. It’s an engineering problem, and it has engineering solutions."

The idea that the humans will somehow adapt to this is the stupidest idea I've ever heard. Koch bros are pushing the same idea, on the evolutionary level, that humans will learn to live.

To me humanity is already dead, we are eternally doomed. We just don't know it yet. It's better to realize and accept it[2], as if we're told we have cancer and our days are numbered. This is a very pessimistic approach, but it is an honest one and may help mitigate problems for future generations.

[1] https://thinkprogress.org/exxon-ceo-what-good-is-it-to-save-...

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/26/were-doo...

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#44

Post by crimsonalucard »

dunstad wrote: post #30
crimsonalucard wrote: post #20

What do we expect? If your purpose in life was found to be a total lie. Do you bury the truth and deny it to yourself and the world? Or do you commit suicide? Every fossil fuel company is going to lie their pants off because that's what you and all other humans would do if they got into the same situation.

Where is option 3, come clean, change their ways and work to correct the damage? Why are 'lie' and 'kill themselves' more obvious?

Option 3 is what people admire but it is not human behavior. Throughout history people and corporations have chosen to lie to themselves and others rather than accept a cold hard truth.

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#45

Post by karl11 »

murat124 wrote: post #43

Former Exxon CEO and former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson famously stated in 2013 during a meeting with Exxonmobil shareholders: "What good is it to save the planet if humanity suffers"[1]. He explained, "As a species that’s why we’re all still here: we have spent our entire existence adapting. So we will adapt to this. It’s an engineering problem, and it has engineering solutions." The idea that the humans will s…

Fortunately for the rest of us, that optimism has worked pretty well for thousands of years now. Besides, if you really believe we're doomed, what difference does it make to you what anyone thinks about anything?

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#46

Post by 1337shadow »

breakyerself wrote: post #36
1337shadow wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weren't documentaries predicting a global climate cooling in 1978 ? In that context, did Exxon think they were saving the climate ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei-_SXLMMfo

Even in the 70s most climate scientists were expecting human caused global warming. The cooling thing was more a media phenomenon. 1965 - 1979 there were a total of 7 scientific papers predicting a cooling climate. Compared to 42 predicting human caused global warming (Peterson 2008).

Pretty interesting, thanks for answering. I wasn't even born, found a nice wiki link where scientists predicted cooling because of aerosol increase but the greenhouse effect was apparently published about in 1972 so they should have known:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_climate_change_scie...

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#47

Post by radford-neal »

cbHXBY1D wrote: post #33

Almost everyone on HN recognizes that climate change is an existential threat to (most) life on earth. There is less agreement on how to mitigate it's effects. One solution which I favor is nationalization of US oil companies. While hardly discussed in the US, it's a solution that is currently being discussed in the UK and has been done by many different countries, though usually because of the legacy of imperialism…

"Almost everyone on HN recognizes that climate change is an existential threat to (most) life on earth."

No. There are no even remotely plausible scenarios in which most life (say, all mammals, to pick something specific) go extinct due to climate change caused by human CO2 emissions. If you think that, you have been lied to - and have not been smart enough to recognize the lies.

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#48

Post by [deleted] »

torpfactory wrote: post #12
bnolsen wrote: post #7

Having now been in China for several weeks this beating the drum trying to make americans feel guilty (and give power over to other people) is absolutely absurd. You want to control pollution the first places to start are china and india. The US in comparison produces negligible impact.

That is simply not true. The US may not produce as much visible pollution anymore, but we still emit a ton of carbon. Canada, Australia, and Saudi Arabia are all about as much or more than us but China is significantly less per capita. https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/sc...

[deleted]

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#49

Post by robocat »

bnolsen wrote: post #7

Having now been in China for several weeks this beating the drum trying to make americans feel guilty (and give power over to other people) is absolutely absurd. You want to control pollution the first places to start are china and india. The US in comparison produces negligible impact.

2009 article: Data from 1900 up to 2004 "The US has the biggest historical share (314,772m metric tonnes of carbon dioxide), while European countries such as Germany (73,625) and the UK (55,163) cast a shadow over developing nations such as India (25,054), Brazil (9,136) and Indonesia (6,167). China is on 89,243."

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/datablog/2009/sep/02...

And as per article, US companies are also involved in the muddy waters of denialism propoganda.

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#50

Post by Consultant32452 »

mr_toad wrote: post #39
cbHXBY1D wrote: post #33

Almost everyone on HN recognizes that climate change is an existential threat to (most) life on earth. There is less agreement on how to mitigate it's effects. One solution which I favor is nationalization of US oil companies. While hardly discussed in the US, it's a solution that is currently being discussed in the UK and has been done by many different countries, though usually because of the legacy of imperialism…

That would only work if climate change deniers weren’t in charge of governments. If the latest Australian elections are anything to go by, popular (popularist) voter sentiment is swinging towards denial.

I don't know how much noise it made in the press, but the US just made some significant investments into nuclear.
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