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China’s new ‘social credit system’

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Re: China’s new ‘social credit system’

#41

Post by JumpCrisscross »

rayiner wrote: post #31

The implementation is somewhat disconcerting, but I’m not sure the underlying policy isn’t a good idea. Culture matters. When I go to Tokyo and see people walking a couple of blocks to cross the street (there isn’t necessarily a cross walk on every block), or carrying their litter with them, versus what I see in say New York, I’m astounded. Similarly for the fact that nobody has ever asked me for a bribe in the US, v…

> These virtuous behaviors are a better way to live and make life better for everyone

This sidesteps that under the umbrella of “virtuous behaviours” are those that support the ruling party. Under the umbrella of undesirable behaviours is dissent of any stripe. That’s what makes this dystopian in a way e.g. London’s CCTV system is not.

Re: China’s new ‘social credit system’

#42

Post by JumpCrisscross »

rayiner wrote: post #38
chasd00 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no good idea inside constant surveillance.

Our successful societies originated in a state of constant (public) surveillance. When you do something in public in small town USA, people see you and that information ripples through the informal social networks. Historically, institutions like churches and schools facilitated exchange of that information. Those things breakdown when you have Chinese cities with millions of people, most of whom just moved there fro…

> When you do something in public in small town USA

“In public” is an important part of that sentence. China is attempting, with the direct and indirect assistance of Western firms like Facebook and Google who have experience building deep surveillance systems, to extend that scrutiny into what was previously the private sphere.

Re: China’s new ‘social credit system’

#43

Post by JumpCrisscross »

adinobro wrote: post #29

China currently doesn't have a "credit score" like most of the rest of the world. They also don't have a national police database so this is their attempt to do both at once. If you look at the information these two things seem to make roughly 90% off your score. Everything else is basically an experiment. Each district is doing it differently to find out what works the best and that will then be merged into what the…

> They also don't have a national police database so this is their attempt to do both at once

China needs a national credit score. And China needs a national police database. What it doesn’t need is both tied together with a political component layered on top.

(I think there is a good chance these experiments will backfire. We tried isolating felons amongst themselves in the United States. It just led to better-networked criminals who had no choice but to return to crime.)

Re: China’s new ‘social credit system’

#45

Post by sneak »

anvandare wrote: post #18
pawelmurias wrote: post #9

Are the rules of what costs you social credit score available?

Probably (although it makes more sense for them to be vague) but you shouldn't really care about the paper rules anyway, instead here are the real rules: Rule One: there are no rules. Rule Two: you must pretend Rule One does not exist. Instead pretend that there is a set of clear, objective, and just rules that apply to everyone equally and fairly; that it is possible to live without ever violating a rule; that no on…

This is one of the best comments I have ever seen on the web. Thank you for writing it.

Re: China’s new ‘social credit system’

#46

Post by icebraining »

ImaCake wrote: post #33
gerbilly wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to go to a book of fiction to get an example. Some Chinese are still old enough to remember the Cultural revolution. During this time people were interrogated for days by their peers in so called 'struggle meetings' in an attempt to change their supposed incorrect behaviour. Reporting someone as a bourgeois person could cause them to disappear.

The soviet satellite republics strike me as another real world 1984 dystopia. You can watch whole movies about the terrifyingly real East German Stasi.

In the novel itself, Ingsoc is said to be similar to the CPSU. Orwell was drawing direct inspiration from the USSR under Stalin, as well as from other real world events.

Re: China’s new ‘social credit system’

#48

Post by aardshark »

rayiner wrote: post #31

The implementation is somewhat disconcerting, but I’m not sure the underlying policy isn’t a good idea. Culture matters. When I go to Tokyo and see people walking a couple of blocks to cross the street (there isn’t necessarily a cross walk on every block), or carrying their litter with them, versus what I see in say New York, I’m astounded. Similarly for the fact that nobody has ever asked me for a bribe in the US, v…

Why on earth would you walk a couple of blocks to cross the street?

Why on earth would you commend this behaviour?

I appreciate that my judgement of this behaviour depends on the street, but from my experience of Tokyo, the streets are not particularly wide, or busy.

Re: China’s new ‘social credit system’

#50

Post by wincy »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #41
rayiner wrote: post #31

The implementation is somewhat disconcerting, but I’m not sure the underlying policy isn’t a good idea. Culture matters. When I go to Tokyo and see people walking a couple of blocks to cross the street (there isn’t necessarily a cross walk on every block), or carrying their litter with them, versus what I see in say New York, I’m astounded. Similarly for the fact that nobody has ever asked me for a bribe in the US, v…

> These virtuous behaviors are a better way to live and make life better for everyone This sidesteps that under the umbrella of “virtuous behaviours” are those that support the ruling party. Under the umbrella of undesirable behaviours is dissent of any stripe. That’s what makes this dystopian in a way e.g. London’s CCTV system is not.

Unless you really upset the ruling elite, like Julian Assange, in which case the west will make your life a living hell.
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