Live data from Hacker News

Phones Should Be Like Toothbrushes

emptyyourcup.substack.com

41–50 of 65 posts

Re: Phones Should Be Like Toothbrushes

#41
post #29

This reads like a "those darn millennials" post, both in how the author seems to think everyone should act like him, and in how out of touch with the way other people actually do things he is. First off, phones aren't really phones anymore. They're computers. For many people, they're the primary or even the only computer they own. It would sound a lot sillier if he said "people are spending 2.5 hours per day on their…

...the author also uses the buzzword 'mindfulness'.

I thought this had peak-memed about four years ago but apparently not, interest in the concept of 'mindfulness' is marching ahead:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=mindfuln...

The problem I have with the word is that there are always better words to use. Being 'aware of one's surroundings' rather than 'mindful' makes more sense to me as I am not initiated into the cult of 'mindfulness'. The word is like insisting that people do yoga instead of anything else involving physical activity. For people that have the 'mindful' meme in their head the use of the word resonates, but for those of us that are suspicious of the word it is a turn off.

There is a certain amount of grandstanding with the use of the 'mindfulness' word, it implies someone knows better when they probably don't. They are holier than thou as they can do this 'mindfulness' thing. They are in touch with some spiritual understanding that also needs kale and yoga.

In the premise of the article is that the person with the phone/toothbrush is the most important person in the known universe. What they are doing is also totally important.

But life is not like that. If you have a relative in hospital you will be desperate to answer that phone. Same if you have some romance or job situation needing a deal to be closed. How can anyone be so aloof that they are not wanting to get messages?

Well one answer is that none of us really are that important. Six billion or so people could phone any one of us up at any moment in time but it is actually only a small handful of relatives and friends that do call. "Hi Mum!" as the saying goes.

So what better than to create a false narrative for yourself where you are that popular and so famous that you need to close down your communication channels as if you were the Queen of England? Don't let people email you and suggest they reach out over a 'tweet'. Now we have these instant communication devices, heaven forbid anyone actually use them. Have no phone just because if you had one then recruiters could call it. Have no email because if you had one then someone might send you spam.

Re: Phones Should Be Like Toothbrushes

#42
post #4

> Your phone does none of these and that’s why it’s a lousy tool at best. A phone is not a lousy tool, from the perspective of it being a tool it is actually quite effective at what it does. > People now spend 2.5 hours on their phones, daily. That’s 17.5 hours a week and, unless you work part-time at a call center, that’s way too much. This is a silly point, in my opinion. It is not the quantity of time spent on a p…

> I know people who scroll through social media for hours on end, in my opinion that feels like a bad use of your time. >But what stops someone from reading a book? Honest question, why are phones usually seen as lesser than books? Imho, fiction books have as little value as people write off to phones, but i just don't see people complain this much about their kids wasting their time reading books too often. (Not try…

Given the caveat that such studies are often looking for particular outcomes and thus suspect, there are a pile of studies documenting benefits of reading, including (for several of them exclusively) fiction. We either do not have, or have the opposite result, from studies on phone usage.

Given that phones are now just general purpose internet-connected computers, I would expect them to have orders of magnitude more variability in outcomes based on actual individual usage, but it's not identically the same cultural panic that happened when mass market fiction entered the market.

It should be noted however for those not aware, that if you give people decontextualized quotes describing the behaviour of readers when mass market books were introduced, they assume they are current and describing smartphone usage.

Re: Phones Should Be Like Toothbrushes

#43
post #39
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How is that different from people spending time watching TV back in the 80s and 90s? Nothing new. You couldn't put your TV set in your pocket and take it out to watch a show whenever you liked in the 80s and 90s. Many people use their smartphones while driving, for example; that goes to show the clear difference in accessibility and what it entails. >But the behavior of wasting one's free time is pretty much unchang…

> Nonetheless, I'm personally not okay with anyone exploiting that. It goes both ways. People use apps to be entertained, share information and pictures because they want to. They download silly games to play during their commute. It's consensual. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.

>Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.

You could say that about smoking as well; it wouldn't make it less addictive, though. The same applies to smartphone apps: they are deliberately addictive, and not transparent about it, unlike the tobacco industry--at least in Europe, which is where I live.

I'll say this: everyone can go to hell in a handbasket if they want. However, the deep consequences all of this will have in the mid-to-long term will be devastating. That's my take on it.

Re: Phones Should Be Like Toothbrushes

#44

Sorry but I have a small business, active family, 2 kids (1 teen and 1 tween) and silencing my phone, or putting it away for long periods of time just doesn't work. I don't spend as much time on my phone as the article claims is "average" (thanks screen time!) but it's simply unrealistic for people that have a busy, dynamic life. Every single day is a symphony of coordination between myself, my wife and my kids. Sche…

I understand the dilemma, however people used to manage life just fine before cell phones became a thing.

You can make a plan for the day, everyone does their thing, you don't have to be available 24/7. If your day-to-day life is a constant flurry of schedule changes and time-critical communication, maybe that needs to change. Being constantly on edge like that is a surefire recipe for stress.

Re: Phones Should Be Like Toothbrushes

#45

Sorry but I have a small business, active family, 2 kids (1 teen and 1 tween) and silencing my phone, or putting it away for long periods of time just doesn't work. I don't spend as much time on my phone as the article claims is "average" (thanks screen time!) but it's simply unrealistic for people that have a busy, dynamic life. Every single day is a symphony of coordination between myself, my wife and my kids. Sche…

I understand the dilemma, however people used to manage life just fine before cell phones became a thing. You can make a plan for the day, everyone does their thing, you don't have to be available 24/7. If your day-to-day life is a constant flurry of schedule changes and time-critical communication, maybe that needs to change. Being constantly on edge like that is a surefire recipe for stress.

> If your day-to-day life is a constant flurry of schedule changes and time-critical communication

You must not have kids, or much going on. I'm not saying it's chaos, or that everyday is that insane, but it requires coordination. "Blanket advice" like this I find only applies to a small percentage of people. Just the kids alone* make my day pretty nutty, both have hobbies, practices, games, after school events, play dates, sleepovers, they forget things, they need to be picked up because "so and sos" Mom is sick or late - I have doctors appointments which also require multiple prescriptions, I have client meetings, they too are busy and reschedule occasionally. Again, not every day, but enough that using my phone like a fcking toothbrush is just insane. Sorry for the rant.

I have only TWO kids. My peers, with 3 or more would laugh maniacally at this suggestion.

Edit: I apologize, I realize I simply re-stated my original comment, adding more detail. TLDR; I disagree with your assertion ;-)

Re: Phones Should Be Like Toothbrushes

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the dilemma, however people used to manage life just fine before cell phones became a thing. You can make a plan for the day, everyone does their thing, you don't have to be available 24/7. If your day-to-day life is a constant flurry of schedule changes and time-critical communication, maybe that needs to change. Being constantly on edge like that is a surefire recipe for stress.

> If your day-to-day life is a constant flurry of schedule changes and time-critical communication You must not have kids, or much going on. I'm not saying it's chaos, or that everyday is that insane, but it requires coordination. "Blanket advice" like this I find only applies to a small percentage of people. Just the kids alone* make my day pretty nutty, both have hobbies, practices, games, after school events, play…

And yet, people did all of those things just fine before cellphones were ubiquitous. What I'm saying is that all of this stress of modern life is artificial and unnecessary.

Re: Phones Should Be Like Toothbrushes

#49
post #23
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to listen to podcasts [...] or to read articles on Hacker News, for one. Do I need to do any of these? No. Certainly not in the same sense as I need brushing my teeth. But these are my pastimes. I also don't need reading a book, listening to a radio show or going to standup comedy. It's entertainment . That's the thing: The apps that take up most of the average person's smartphone daily usage[0] are designed to exp…

> Being able to entertain oneself by using an electronic device is not a bad thing per se; however, smartphones have enabled corporations to dictate our behavior during every single hour of our waking lives I see it as a mere externalization of responsiblity for being, well, lazy. Somehow I'm never browsing Facebook or Instagram for pictures of cats and the like. I guess they must have overlooked me when they "dictat…

> Somehow I'm never browsing Facebook or Instagram for pictures of cats and the like. I guess they must have overlooked me when they "dictated" behavior to people.

It's great that the methods Facebook uses don't work on you, be it because their "product" just does not interest you or because you have above average self-control. Other people are not as lucky.

Re: Phones Should Be Like Toothbrushes

#50
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know people who scroll through social media for hours on end, in my opinion that feels like a bad use of your time. >But what stops someone from reading a book? Honest question, why are phones usually seen as lesser than books? Imho, fiction books have as little value as people write off to phones, but i just don't see people complain this much about their kids wasting their time reading books too often. (Not try…

I actually meant reading a book on the phone :) As in: "The two hours someone spends on a phone could be reading books, is that so bad?" Not quite sure why some would see reading on a phone as lesser, maybe because its tied to the rest of the addictive phone environment?

most of my phone time is spent listening to audiodrama and books. on average i spend more time on that than watching tv.
Post reply on HN