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One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

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Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#41

Post by kthejoker2 »

briandear wrote: post #19
sologoub wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it’s better to not provide the people in this horrid situation with any dignity in the hopes that something changes and shames society into some unknown action? Portland IS trying to provide public toilets and a cleaner environment on the streets at least. It sounds like the person profiled for this article actually was able to get her life together. It’s a step. SF can learn a lot from Portland. For example, it i…

> SF can learn a lot from Portland. SF can learn a lot from Houston, Dallas, or San Antonio: they don’t have city blocks covered with shit, needles, or people living in tents on the sidewalks. The more SF “helps,” the more they attract. Houston is the 4th largest city and has a fraction of the homeless. Red districts seem to have less income inequality and fewer homeless and lower poverty.[1] The San Francisco Approa…

Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio all vote blue. We just don't have the urban density of Portland or SF, so our homeless camps are smaller and generally more manageable by traditional city services and law enforcement.

But also: yes, feces, needles, etc.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Mid...

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#42

Post by markgavalda »

dvdbloc wrote: post #17

Does Seattle has services like this? It seems that lately there has been garbage literally all over the entire city and no one seems to care or clean it.

No it doesn't. Watch this for a full picture of what's happening in Seattle and a proposed, humane and actually effective solution at the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#43

Post by vertex-four »

jesssse wrote: post #38
matt4077 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being poor isn’t a crime. Many homeless people never commit crimes. Your tough-guy jingoism also just ignores all the evidence that shows that just punishing people at the lowest end of society simply doesn’t work. Send them to jail (which costs more than college) and they don’t get out and say “oh, now I have the skills to get my life back in order”. Being homeless is terribly uncomfortable and punishing already. No…

Your solution, which has unfortunately become the status quo, is to allow criminals to freely operate in camps in plain view. I am correct for wanting criminals held responsible for their crimes. You want thieves and rapists to freely live on my public pathways. Some homeless I've met say they moved to Portland because the camping laws are not enforced. Every illegal camper is breaking the law. The local government d…

If you want people to be arrested for theft and rape, do that. Merely sleeping without a roof over one’s head should never be illegal, and I applaud anyone who fights against it being so, at any level.

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#44

Post by roscorollo »

jesssse wrote: post #38
matt4077 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being poor isn’t a crime. Many homeless people never commit crimes. Your tough-guy jingoism also just ignores all the evidence that shows that just punishing people at the lowest end of society simply doesn’t work. Send them to jail (which costs more than college) and they don’t get out and say “oh, now I have the skills to get my life back in order”. Being homeless is terribly uncomfortable and punishing already. No…

Your solution, which has unfortunately become the status quo, is to allow criminals to freely operate in camps in plain view. I am correct for wanting criminals held responsible for their crimes. You want thieves and rapists to freely live on my public pathways. Some homeless I've met say they moved to Portland because the camping laws are not enforced. Every illegal camper is breaking the law. The local government d…

~ You want thieves and rapists to freely live on my public pathways.

Those are some pretty extreme accusations to make at an umbrella group term such as "Homeless".

If your point of not prosecuting illegal campers is true, how does this relate to "Rapists and Thieves" not facing usual criminal proceedings?

In a personal side note, in many jurisdictions your blanket statements could be seen as incendiary towards a very vulnerable community.

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#45

Post by [deleted] »

jesssse wrote: post #39
EliRivers wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people take a more pragmatic, evidence-based approach that leads to a better outcome. In the interests of not being passive-aggressive, I'm saying that your absolutist approach is a bad idea and in many cases makes things worse. I do recognise that there are people who prefer a worse outcome, because they want to see people directly punished, and also people who prefer a worse overall outcome if it makes their l…

I wonder what evidence could be found about my proposed solution of "law enforcement". Currently, criminals are allowed to live on public pathways and in neighborhood parks. It's normal to see mountains of feces and needles and water bottle caps. It's outrageous and absolutely a failure of government.

[deleted]

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#46

Post by wool_gather »

jesssse wrote: post #29
trynewideas wrote: post #21

A good side read is the Street Response team proposed by Street Roots, funding for which is in the proposed city budget: https://news.streetroots.org/2019/03/15/portland-street-resp... Clean and Safe only works in downtown and often works in service to businesses who complain, and homelessness is an issue across the city. Portland police often resort to ineffective sweeps to clear camps, and are prone to deploying fo…

Endless enablement will worsen the environment. Criminals should be charged with crimes, not receive free services.

We have a person who has no other place to sleep. Right now we turn a blind eye to their sleeping in a park, and spend some time and money cleaning up afterwards[0]. Instead you would like to throw this person into a prison where we will spend even more time and money taking care of them from sunup to sunup? I don't see that as an effective solution to any of the problems at hand.

[0]:Which I agree, it would be better we didn't have to.

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#47

Post by yostrovs »

yostrovs wrote: post #3
throw03172019 wrote: post #2

Dear San Francisco, Can we have a few of these squads?

That would make the people that generate the needles and feces effectively invisible in our society. Their suffering would be for naught.

I was being sarcastic. Apologies that no one noticed.

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#48

Post by closeparen »

EliRivers wrote: post #37
jesssse wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Endless enablement will worsen the environment. Criminals should be charged with crimes, not receive free services.

Many people take a more pragmatic, evidence-based approach that leads to a better outcome. In the interests of not being passive-aggressive, I'm saying that your absolutist approach is a bad idea and in many cases makes things worse. I do recognise that there are people who prefer a worse outcome, because they want to see people directly punished, and also people who prefer a worse overall outcome if it makes their l…

At no point will we be able to accomodate every desperate person who shows up in a top-tier city with a good apartment there quickly. Supply, density, and affordable housing programs can all be drastically increased, but not enough for the literal billions of people in the world who would take you up on that. Even the Soviets had to assign people to live in less desirable places.

Letting everything else fall apart (libraries, parks, transit, sidewalks, bike paths, etc) as we hold out for this to change doesn't strike me as pragmatism.

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#49

Post by tropo »

wool_gather wrote: post #46
jesssse wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Endless enablement will worsen the environment. Criminals should be charged with crimes, not receive free services.

We have a person who has no other place to sleep. Right now we turn a blind eye to their sleeping in a park, and spend some time and money cleaning up afterwards[0]. Instead you would like to throw this person into a prison where we will spend even more time and money taking care of them from sunup to sunup? I don't see that as an effective solution to any of the problems at hand. [0]:Which I agree, it would be bette…

If they consume 100 square feet of land that would cost $1500 per square foot, the value is $150,000. (normal Manhattan prices, which should be less than the prime spots taken by these tents) It is unimproved, pushing the rent down, but small, pushing the rent up. Calling those even, a month of rent should be about $1,000.

That comes to something like $33 per day, or $12,000 per year. A possible solution presents itself: sell camping permits.

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#50

Post by tomhoward »

dmode wrote: post #35
briandear wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SF can learn a lot from Portland. SF can learn a lot from Houston, Dallas, or San Antonio: they don’t have city blocks covered with shit, needles, or people living in tents on the sidewalks. The more SF “helps,” the more they attract. Houston is the 4th largest city and has a fraction of the homeless. Red districts seem to have less income inequality and fewer homeless and lower poverty.[1] The San Francisco Approa…

[flagged]

Your last three sentences are in stark contrast to the first part of your first sentence.
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