Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach • Hacker News Board

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#41

Post by tomp » Wed, May 01, 2019, 2:12 PM UTC

_petronius wrote: post #24

yasp wrote: post #8

Craig Murray's reaction is worth reading [1]. I realize he does not respond to the bail breach directly, but rather to what precipitated this chain of events. > If the Swedish allegations against Julian Assange were genuine and not simply a ruse to arrest him for extradition to the United States, where is the arrest warrant now from Sweden and what are the charges? > Only the more minor allegation has passed the stat…

This whole "if the accusation is real then why hasn't he been charged?" pseudo-fact relies on a rather stubborn misunderstanding of the difference between the Swedish legal system and the UK one. Assange can't be "charged" in the sense that the Anglosphere thinks of it until he is physically present for trail; that doesn't mean that the charges haven't been put to him or that Sweden isn't actively pursuing the invest…

According to your [2], more than 2 weeks ago, Swedish lawyers started preparing their case to request his extradition. Have there been any updates?

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#42

Post by pbhjpbhj » Wed, May 01, 2019, 2:12 PM UTC

_petronius wrote: post #24

yasp wrote: post #8

Craig Murray's reaction is worth reading [1]. I realize he does not respond to the bail breach directly, but rather to what precipitated this chain of events. > If the Swedish allegations against Julian Assange were genuine and not simply a ruse to arrest him for extradition to the United States, where is the arrest warrant now from Sweden and what are the charges? > Only the more minor allegation has passed the stat…

This whole "if the accusation is real then why hasn't he been charged?" pseudo-fact relies on a rather stubborn misunderstanding of the difference between the Swedish legal system and the UK one. Assange can't be "charged" in the sense that the Anglosphere thinks of it until he is physically present for trail; that doesn't mean that the charges haven't been put to him or that Sweden isn't actively pursuing the invest…

I think that's how it works in UK to, you get arrested first, then charged, if you flee then you're wanted "to face charges", ie the charges will be pressed once you're caught. Does any legal system have a full court case first, then apprehend only those proven guilty? Surely without essential witnesses that's not possible.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#43

Post by Hamuko » Wed, May 01, 2019, 2:13 PM UTC

lucideer wrote: post #29

akvadrako wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, this seems like a dishonest account of the situation. My understanding is that being "charged" in Sweden normally happens later in the process than in the USA/UK, so the fact that he wasn't "charged" isn't meaningful.

To be fair, you've nitpicked one minor detail in the above quote. The subtantive point still hands. Why is Assange not now wanted for questioning in Sweden?

Hasn't the crime expired?

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#44

Post by freeflight » Wed, May 01, 2019, 2:15 PM UTC

Gaelan wrote: post #4

sschueller wrote: post #2

While I am saddened by this decision I hope he now is able to get proper medical care and fight the case against extradition. As long as he is not on London streets the US can't just snatch him up. [1] [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case

Has the US ever “snatched up” someone from the middle of London?

They've done it in countries to which they are way less "aligned" than the UK [0] and the UK has historically been the US's strongest partner on all things "national security/terrorism".

In that context, I wouldn't really be surprised if it's happened before, tho the blowback potential, if it should become public, would be massive so it will probably be kept under extremely tight wraps.

[0] https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/20-extraordina...

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#45

Post by _petronius » Wed, May 01, 2019, 2:16 PM UTC

leereeves wrote: post #36

_petronius wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole "if the accusation is real then why hasn't he been charged?" pseudo-fact relies on a rather stubborn misunderstanding of the difference between the Swedish legal system and the UK one. Assange can't be "charged" in the sense that the Anglosphere thinks of it until he is physically present for trail; that doesn't mean that the charges haven't been put to him or that Sweden isn't actively pursuing the invest…

> that Sweden isn't actively pursuing the investigation. Ecuador started arranging for him to leave the embassy at least five months ago. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/dec/06/ecuador-says-u... Why didn't Sweden have an extradition request ready? They had at least five months to prepare one.

Because Ecuador warned the US they would be kicking him out of the embassy, but did not warn Sweden. I don't think that is in doubt at all.

The US does not need Sweden's involvement to extradite and try Assange. The rape charges are separate and irrelevant to the charges he faces in the US, and whether the UK would even grant his extradition to the US is not a sure thing.

These two cases are unrelated, and the only reason they have been conflated is a concerted effort on the part of Assange supporters to discredit the accusations of sexual misconduct by lumping them in with his WikiLeaks activities and make up a whole lot of guff about CIA plots rather than just accept that he should face the criminal justice procedure for some shitty personal behaviour on his part.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#46

Post by pmyteh » Wed, May 01, 2019, 2:16 PM UTC

netcan wrote: post #11

sschueller wrote: post #2

While I am saddened by this decision I hope he now is able to get proper medical care and fight the case against extradition. As long as he is not on London streets the US can't just snatch him up. [1] [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case

There may not be and extradition case. It doesn't seem like Sweden is still keen, and on balance, the US mightn't want him either at this point. It's not a guaranteed conviction. The president has an embarrassing YouTube reel where he "loves WikiLeaks" 50 times. It'll drag the contents of contentious leaks back into the spotlight. It could be more convenient to let it go.

It is an extradition case: the US have made an extradition request for conspiracy to hack (only). Assange is currently held for that as well as the Bail Act offence.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#47

Post by duxup » Wed, May 01, 2019, 2:17 PM UTC

dleslie wrote: post #34

I suspect that the USA isn't keen to make him a martyr, and that key players recognize the minimal value in prosecuting him now. It will be interesting to see how they utilize this nearly year-long reprieve from Assange's political posturing.

I'm not sure many folks would think of him as a martyr. A lot of the previous good will about leaking important documents seems to have been washed away by Wikileak's crafting things to form their own narratives.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#48

Post by primroot » Wed, May 01, 2019, 2:19 PM UTC

cyphar wrote: post #30

Gaelan wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has the US ever “snatched up” someone from the middle of London?

Not in London, but GP linked two examples (one in Macedonia and one in Italy). There are also many other examples of CIA-run extraordinary rendition[1]. However in these cases they were both done with co-operation from the local police (or military) and government as part of the US "war on terror" (abductions without local government approval have also happened in the past -- Mossad did this in the 1960s[2] -- but I…

Where is the cooperation here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case I really fail to see it.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#49

Post by leereeves » Wed, May 01, 2019, 2:20 PM UTC

_petronius wrote: post #45

leereeves wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that Sweden isn't actively pursuing the investigation. Ecuador started arranging for him to leave the embassy at least five months ago. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/dec/06/ecuador-says-u... Why didn't Sweden have an extradition request ready? They had at least five months to prepare one.

Because Ecuador warned the US they would be kicking him out of the embassy, but did not warn Sweden. I don't think that is in doubt at all. The US does not need Sweden's involvement to extradite and try Assange. The rape charges are separate and irrelevant to the charges he faces in the US, and whether the UK would even grant his extradition to the US is not a sure thing. These two cases are unrelated, and the only r…

> Ecuador warned the US they would be kicking him out of the embassy, but did not warn Sweden

Ecuador hardly needed to notify Sweden. It was international news. The Guardian article from five months ago that I linked was just one of many. "No one in the Swedish government reads international news" is not a credible explanation.

I see two possible explanations:

1) Sweden doesn't place a high priority on prosecuting famous accused rapists who've escaped justice for years, or

2) Sweden doesn't consider Assange a famous accused rapist who's escaped justice for years.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#50

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Wed, May 01, 2019, 2:21 PM UTC

fit2rule wrote: post #17

sschueller wrote: post #2

While I am saddened by this decision I hope he now is able to get proper medical care and fight the case against extradition. As long as he is not on London streets the US can't just snatch him up. [1] [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case

Corollary: As long as he is in a maximum security prison controlled by imperial powers, the public will not be aware of the brainwashing/programming/coercion he is going to be subjected to .. Will we see the same Assange in 50 weeks? This is more than enough time for the masters of MK ULTRA to subvert his will and turn him into a puppet.

I'm trying to decide if this line of thinking is scary or wondrous.