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When Doctors Thought ‘Wanderlust’ Was a Psychological Condition

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Re: When Doctors Thought ‘Wanderlust’ Was a Psychological Condition

#41

Post by koverstreet »

chubot wrote: post #28
LifeLiverTransp wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost like biological determined scoutships for a group, arent they? Imagine a bunch of hunte/gatherers, who just entered a new continent (like north-america)- having those loonies orbiting the group, reporting new ressources, scouting ahead- sounds well adapted.

Yeah I agree with this. I thought I read that scientists claim there's no such thing as "group selection" in evolution, i.e. where one individual in a group will do something bad for himself but good for the group (reproductively speaking). Yeah it looks like wikipedia has a page on this controversy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_selection Richard Dawkins apparently doesn't believe in it, and neither does Steve…

If group selection wasn't a thing, multicellular organisms wouldn't exist.

Re: When Doctors Thought ‘Wanderlust’ Was a Psychological Condition

#42

Post by anjc »

maxheadroom wrote: post #17
izzydata wrote: post #2

Aren't most mental disorders just behaviors that differ from the norm and make it difficult for those people to function in everyday society? Some cultures wouldn't recognize some things as a disorder if it wasn't difficult for those people. My point being that I don't understand where you draw the line. If someone had such a need to wander the world that it meant that they couldn't live properly in modern society th…

> Aren't most mental disorders just behaviors that differ from the norm and make it difficult for those people to function in everyday society? (Story time.) I went to a presentation one time at work about mental health. (It was part of the government's mental health awareness campaign[0].) In this presentation, the presenter mentioned bathing/lack of changing clothes as a marker for possible mental health issues. As…

Access to water in Ireland is assumed to such an extent that it isn't even listed in the ESRI's criteria for poverty. As such, it's very obvious that lack of bathing/changing clothes will almost NEVER be due to lack of access to water. Even temporary halting sites must have access to water considered by local councils.

> From a privileged, lower-middle class or above perspective

Very confused as to why you think 'water' might be limited to the demographic who work as teachers, Gardaí, and above, or why access to water indicates privilege.

Re: When Doctors Thought ‘Wanderlust’ Was a Psychological Condition

#43

Post by shin_lao »

izzydata wrote: post #2

Aren't most mental disorders just behaviors that differ from the norm and make it difficult for those people to function in everyday society? Some cultures wouldn't recognize some things as a disorder if it wasn't difficult for those people. My point being that I don't understand where you draw the line. If someone had such a need to wander the world that it meant that they couldn't live properly in modern society th…

It's not just about making it hard to function in society, it's also preventing these people from achieving their goals and being happy (whatever happy is for them).

Usually you can spot a personality disorder objectively if the person has no continuity of any kind in her life: relationships, career, personal achievements...

In the case of wanderlust, it can be an unhealthy coping mechanism: "Something is wrong, I will ignore the problem and travel away".

I have healthy and unhealthy examples of wanderlust in my friends.

One healthy example is a couple of friends traveling together to find out where they would like to settle down and live (there is a goal, the motivation is positive).

One unhealthy example I have is a friend traveling randomly because she doesn't know what to do with her life. When I asked her about her latest travel she couldn't tell me much except "it was great". (no tangible goal, negative motivation, does not seem to enjoy traveling that much).

Re: When Doctors Thought ‘Wanderlust’ Was a Psychological Condition

#44

Post by jadyoyster »

chubot wrote: post #28
LifeLiverTransp wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost like biological determined scoutships for a group, arent they? Imagine a bunch of hunte/gatherers, who just entered a new continent (like north-america)- having those loonies orbiting the group, reporting new ressources, scouting ahead- sounds well adapted.

Yeah I agree with this. I thought I read that scientists claim there's no such thing as "group selection" in evolution, i.e. where one individual in a group will do something bad for himself but good for the group (reproductively speaking). Yeah it looks like wikipedia has a page on this controversy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_selection Richard Dawkins apparently doesn't believe in it, and neither does Steve…

Don't ants in a colony all share the same genes and have the queen do all reproducing? (From the sperm of a single male possibly? I'm not super familiar.)

Re: When Doctors Thought ‘Wanderlust’ Was a Psychological Condition

#45

Post by shkkmo »

admax88q wrote: post #14
Nasrudith wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also the converse - what is accepted as "normal" or even praised as a virtue is harmful and destructive. To give real examples smoking was normal, as was pedestray and ironically the Roman gladiatoral combat which is considered peak decadence was intended to combat decadence! Normal is a pretty shitty heuristic for being good.

> Normal is a pretty shitty heuristic for being good. A few counter examples doesn't mean that the heuristic is bad. Heuristics will always have counter examples, that's why they're heuristics, not rules.

I would argue that inherent discrimination against minority traits is what makes that heuristic bad.

Given a single counter example, the burden of proof should be on the users of the heuristic to show why the use of that heuristic is an improvement over the alternatives (which have no counter examples).

Re: When Doctors Thought ‘Wanderlust’ Was a Psychological Condition

#46

Post by bagacrap »

shin_lao wrote: post #43
izzydata wrote: post #2

Aren't most mental disorders just behaviors that differ from the norm and make it difficult for those people to function in everyday society? Some cultures wouldn't recognize some things as a disorder if it wasn't difficult for those people. My point being that I don't understand where you draw the line. If someone had such a need to wander the world that it meant that they couldn't live properly in modern society th…

It's not just about making it hard to function in society, it's also preventing these people from achieving their goals and being happy (whatever happy is for them). Usually you can spot a personality disorder objectively if the person has no continuity of any kind in her life: relationships, career, personal achievements... In the case of wanderlust, it can be an unhealthy coping mechanism: "Something is wrong, I wi…

So every hobby must have a practical purpose or it's unhealthy? I'm glad for my own sake I don't agree.

Re: When Doctors Thought ‘Wanderlust’ Was a Psychological Condition

#47

Post by asveikau »

lazyjones wrote: post #13

Surely there can be both a healthy "wanderlust" borne out of curiosity and eagerness to explore the world and a pathological restlessness due to some anxiety disorder? I don't see a convincing case for conflating these two things. But it does make a good headline...

I have definitely been close to people who seemed to book an unreasonable amount of vacations to get away from their mood disorders.

Re: When Doctors Thought ‘Wanderlust’ Was a Psychological Condition

#48

Post by drb91 »

asveikau wrote: post #47
lazyjones wrote: post #13

Surely there can be both a healthy "wanderlust" borne out of curiosity and eagerness to explore the world and a pathological restlessness due to some anxiety disorder? I don't see a convincing case for conflating these two things. But it does make a good headline...

I have definitely been close to people who seemed to book an unreasonable amount of vacations to get away from their mood disorders.

What is an unreasonable amount of vacation?

Re: When Doctors Thought ‘Wanderlust’ Was a Psychological Condition

#49

Post by asveikau »

drb91 wrote: post #48
asveikau wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have definitely been close to people who seemed to book an unreasonable amount of vacations to get away from their mood disorders.

What is an unreasonable amount of vacation?

Near constant. Planning the next one before starting the ones that you've booked. Showing a very clear feedback loop of internal stress, escape, escape itself causing more stress, leading to further perceived need to escape.

I don't want to get into lots of personal detail, but it's the kind of thing that when you see it from the outside it's clear as day. And saddening.

Re: When Doctors Thought ‘Wanderlust’ Was a Psychological Condition

#50

Post by kempbellt »

All psychological states are "Psychological Conditions". Whether they are something that need to be "treated", or not is a different question.

Depending on your upbringing, marrying, and staying in your town might be considered the norm, and therefor wanderlust, the abnorm. Locals may think you strange for ever wanting to leave and explore the world.

Conversely, in my upbringing, I resented the idea of staying still and have lived in a constant state of wanderlust. As have many of my friends. It's a big world, and there is lots to explore.

Tangentially, I wonder if there is a link between wanderlust, and people who have to rearrange their bedrooms frequently.

In US culture it may not be as prominent, but in many other cultures, young adults (students) will frequently take a "gap year" in which they will travel the world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gap_year

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