Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly, I don't see it happening. Zig and rust and jai and d all feast on c's remains, but the result can only be fragmentation. And then you lose one of the big draws of c: ubiquity. Zig has two compilers. Rust has one (serious) compiler. Jai has 1, d has either 1.5 or 3.5 (depending on how you count). And although all those languages want to replace c as the language-that-you-use-for-everything, and they might ea…
I feel like C hasn't been a "language-that-you-use-for-everything" for some time, so it's more about replacing C in the situations where C is currently a reasonable choice for new development.
Zig 0.4.0 Released
41–50 of 141 posts
Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly, I don't see it happening. Zig and rust and jai and d all feast on c's remains, but the result can only be fragmentation. And then you lose one of the big draws of c: ubiquity. Zig has two compilers. Rust has one (serious) compiler. Jai has 1, d has either 1.5 or 3.5 (depending on how you count). And although all those languages want to replace c as the language-that-you-use-for-everything, and they might ea…
I don't see any single thing replacing C (or C++) but what's interesting here is many of these languages work very well with the C ABI, not just as an FFI concept but with notions of memory and data layout. The interesting side effect might be that we'll see Zig not just work with C code but Zig work with Jai with D with Rust. All of that code can still interface with C or C++ code (in both directions). This lowers t…
That already works, not a hypothetical. I can write, right now, a zig function, call it from rust, slap the whole thing into a library and wrap it with d. It hasn't taken the world by storm because these languages provide support the system c abi and calling convention, but do not embrace it. If I write a fancy templated function in zig, d, or rust, the name mangling, type-information, templating, maybe even call conventions -- are all different. This is why I have been and continue to be disappointed that things like COM or the jvm or cli aren't more popular, because they actually work that way. I can write, right now a clojure function, call it from java and then pass it into kotlin. Effortlessly, it's just an import away. Sure there are, for example, stdlib conflicts in scala but overall it's a much more frictionless experience. The problem? COM is windows-specific, jvm and cli are managed runtimes and people don't like managed runtimes.
Another place I look for a solution is racket, but again it wants to manage too much of the runtime to be practical. What zig is doing with the build system is great, the fact that the build script is actually a fully customizable script means it has a much better chance of taking off, but until I can import a jai module from d and call it in zig, we're gonna have problems.
EDIT: something which possibly almost could have had a good chance of pulling this off is llvm. Except that llvm comes too late in the compilation process to be used to resolve imports and symbols. Something like libclang, maybe, except not specific to c and c++.
Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly, I don't see it happening. Zig and rust and jai and d all feast on c's remains, but the result can only be fragmentation. And then you lose one of the big draws of c: ubiquity. Zig has two compilers. Rust has one (serious) compiler. Jai has 1, d has either 1.5 or 3.5 (depending on how you count). And although all those languages want to replace c as the language-that-you-use-for-everything, and they might ea…
Maybe I'm a bit of a rust fanboy and a bit of a skeptic but Zig and Jai aren't going anywhere. Zig appears to be a largely single contibutor ( https://github.com/ziglang/zig/graphs/contributors the creator has As for rust we don't know yet how big of a chunk of marketshare it will take from new c and c++ code. Not many people still use c code for "everything", most have already switched.
Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly, I don't see it happening. Zig and rust and jai and d all feast on c's remains, but the result can only be fragmentation. And then you lose one of the big draws of c: ubiquity. Zig has two compilers. Rust has one (serious) compiler. Jai has 1, d has either 1.5 or 3.5 (depending on how you count). And although all those languages want to replace c as the language-that-you-use-for-everything, and they might ea…
Maybe I'm a bit of a rust fanboy and a bit of a skeptic but Zig and Jai aren't going anywhere. Zig appears to be a largely single contibutor ( https://github.com/ziglang/zig/graphs/contributors the creator has As for rust we don't know yet how big of a chunk of marketshare it will take from new c and c++ code. Not many people still use c code for "everything", most have already switched.
That's a good thing. The less contributors, the better the project usually.
Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
I didn't put a lot of consideration into the algorithm in particular. I was going to do SHA-256 but somebody told me Blake was faster. I haven't tested the performance of any other algorithms, but that's a completely swappable component. I'm sure the hash function will be swapped with a different one before 1.0.0 is done.
As an example, xxHash [1] would probably get you an easy 5-10x performance improvement over Blake2b. So there are some easy improvements if the cryptographic requirement is not needed. [1] http://cyan4973.github.io/xxHash/
Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not particularly charitable. The accidental AMA that happened on HN a few weeks back gave me the impression that V lang isn't as polished as a concept as some of the other offerings out there. BUT the author seemed tp have something brewing. And regardless we'll have some more evidence in the coming months. Regardless, V lang is another data point that something besides C is a possibility with the modern tools…
Yes, V is at a very early stage. I merely created an "about" page, then it got posted, got lots of attention, so I created a website and recently released a playground: https://vlang.io/play There's still a lot of work to do, but the language is going to be open-sourced very soon in early June.
> Yes, I've done a terrible job with estimations and for 9 months I lived in "release tomorrow" mode.
> Ironically this time it it really is going to be released tomorrow (Feb 7).
Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, V is at a very early stage. I merely created an "about" page, then it got posted, got lots of attention, so I created a website and recently released a playground: https://vlang.io/play There's still a lot of work to do, but the language is going to be open-sourced very soon in early June.
61 days ago you said [1] > Yes, I've done a terrible job with estimations and for 9 months I lived in "release tomorrow" mode. > Ironically this time it it really is going to be released tomorrow (Feb 7). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19102431
Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released
#48[Off-topic] Another programming language website with no code examples front/center on the homepage? When you click "Download & Documentation" there's a link under the headline "master" to the long-form documentation which has some examples: https://ziglang.org/documentation/master/ Edit: also found a blog post with a nice introduction: https://andrewkelley.me/post/intro-to-zig.html and an examples directory: https:/…
Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't see any single thing replacing C (or C++) but what's interesting here is many of these languages work very well with the C ABI, not just as an FFI concept but with notions of memory and data layout. The interesting side effect might be that we'll see Zig not just work with C code but Zig work with Jai with D with Rust. All of that code can still interface with C or C++ code (in both directions). This lowers t…
> The interesting side effect might be that we'll see Zig not just work with C code but Zig work with Jai with D with Rust. All of that code can still interface with C or C++ code (in both directions) That already works, not a hypothetical. I can write, right now, a zig function, call it from rust, slap the whole thing into a library and wrap it with d. It hasn't taken the world by storm because these languages provi…
Re: Zig 0.4.0 Released
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not particularly charitable. The accidental AMA that happened on HN a few weeks back gave me the impression that V lang isn't as polished as a concept as some of the other offerings out there. BUT the author seemed tp have something brewing. And regardless we'll have some more evidence in the coming months. Regardless, V lang is another data point that something besides C is a possibility with the modern tools…
Yes, V is at a very early stage. I merely created an "about" page, then it got posted, got lots of attention, so I created a website and recently released a playground: https://vlang.io/play There's still a lot of work to do, but the language is going to be open-sourced very soon in early June.
Btw you should update the language comparison page, see here https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/4758