I ve been using Jquery since long time where almost every frontend article says it's an antipattern. But it's never gonna give me up, never gonna let me down.
You probably don't need that hip web framework
41–50 of 60 posts
Re: You probably don't need that hip web framework
#42Why do we keep seeing posts like this? My team absolutely needs React/Redux/Sagas/Webpack/whatever-you-want-to-hate-on-today, to ship and yeah we ship our backend with Docker. Why do I know we need it? Because we have years of experience in our workflow and we understand the problems we need to solve in the development workflow and timeline our company uses. Do you know who doesn't understand our needs? Someone writi…
I'm with you. Whenever I see posts like this, I can't help but think, "More job security for me."
You may be joking, but I really think some of these posts may be by design. Some of these frameworks are so easy to use and in skilled hands lead to such impressive results, that it becomes harder to get a competitive advantage with UX. A single developer can do today what once took a small team. Thus we see these fucked up ladder kicking posts where people are encouraged to go use last generation tech, so they get left in the dust by companies pushing ever forward. By the time they realize how far behind they’ve fallen, it’s too late.
Re: You probably don't need that hip web framework
#43To be honest, I’m still fine with jQuery and Laravel. I’ve looked at React and Vue and while they are marvels, I ain’t got that kind of time. But, I also don’t write mobile apps. I’m dealing with desktop and the rules are different there.
My takeaway from this article is to use what you know if you want to ship something. With every new project, you’re given the choice to use a new stack. I think it’s pretty rare that you want to ship something, have the chops to ship it, but some new magic thing is worth the time investment to make it happen.
For instance, I really don’t want to take the time to learn Laravel. I get my fastest work done with React and a turnkey serverless solution.
Re: You probably don't need that hip web framework
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because your team is the exception. Isn’t that implied by the title?
That's the thing though. Is my team really the exception? When you look at the highly immersive web that product managers and customers have come to expect, you simply can't build it without javascript. Once you've crossed that bridge, is it really easier to finagle some event handling using vanilla js/jquery or pull down create-react-app and get all the tooling necessary to 1-click-deploy to Heroku, S3 or Github pag…
I have no idea. But saying that you feel like you need a project is not a counterargument to the thesis: most teams don’t need it, even if some do. Maybe that’s right, or maybe it’s wrong, but your original comment was not a rebuttal.
You questioned why we keep seeing these arguments. Perhaps it’s because nobody on the other side cares to listen?
Re: You probably don't need that hip web framework
#45I feel very strongly about this: The single most important thing for a growing software project is Using Opinionated Tooling. Too many new projects, libraries, frameworks, etc come around and broadcast "we're Unopinionated!" like that's some great thing. You cannot, without exception, develop complex software without asserting and extrapolating opinions about design patterns, tools, frameworks, layout, etc somewhere…
Makes sense why Apollo is such a clusterfuck then. Have you looked at Nest for Node on the server side? I'm using it for a client project right now and find it the best offering for server side javascript. The ecosystem _is_ still immature though relative to something like Rails or Laravel.
What's wrong with Apollo?
Re: You probably don't need that hip web framework
#46Why do we keep seeing posts like this? My team absolutely needs React/Redux/Sagas/Webpack/whatever-you-want-to-hate-on-today, to ship and yeah we ship our backend with Docker. Why do I know we need it? Because we have years of experience in our workflow and we understand the problems we need to solve in the development workflow and timeline our company uses. Do you know who doesn't understand our needs? Someone writi…
My theory is its like this mostly because on HN because there's no downvote for posts. Everything useful that can be said about how bloated web frameworks supposedly are has pretty much been said imo, but there's a niche of people convinced every web app is actually simple and should be done using Netscape 4 era HTML. I'm all for simplicity... but if you are developing a large web application, you probably would bene…
Github is actually a great example - i think it's getting better gradually, but for a lot time it was really obvious that it was server-rendered pages with a few ajax calls sprinkled in to do small things like update the status when the tests finish. And it led to all kinds of weird edge cases and unpredictability, some things would live update, other things you need to do hard refresh to see the latest version, sometimes when using the back button it would reload the original version of the page before the ajax calls had succeeded so you'd see old data.
Clearly it wasn't bad enough to drive everyone off the platform, but there's no way you'll convince me that that was a better system that a well-written SPA built with modern tools.
Re: You probably don't need that hip web framework
#47Why do we keep seeing posts like this? My team absolutely needs React/Redux/Sagas/Webpack/whatever-you-want-to-hate-on-today, to ship and yeah we ship our backend with Docker. Why do I know we need it? Because we have years of experience in our workflow and we understand the problems we need to solve in the development workflow and timeline our company uses. Do you know who doesn't understand our needs? Someone writi…
Genuinely curious: how long have you been doing web development and what technologies were you using before you found yourself absolutely needing React and co?
Re: You probably don't need that hip web framework
#48SPAs become necessary when the user experience requires bells and whistles, like cross-widget consistency of like/friend request counts (the original use case of React IIRC). It's not "you ain't gonna need it," it's "you are gonna need it, users will judge you by your fluidity, sure it's overkill right now, but the overhead may be less than the pain of a frontend rewrite since you may need it soon." I've often though…
I guess the main issue to be argued here is a poorly defined "it". What does every app need? State management? Lightning-fast interface updates? Counts incrementing in three places at once?
For the 10-20% of apps that get built in React/Vue that actually "need it", I believe that 90% of them would be better served by Rails + Turbolinks 5 + Stimulus.
Most of the people who rally behind the SPAs for everything mindset came up at the peak hype moment for React and friends. There's an unfortunate tendency to believe that the thing you're thinking about right now is more important than it actually is.
If you're not working at a large company, you most likely do not need these tools. Nobody is going to come in the night and take them from you, but boy, everyone would iterate a lot faster if they didn't spend so much time bikeshedding and obsessing about state mutation.
Re: You probably don't need that hip web framework
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm with you. Whenever I see posts like this, I can't help but think, "More job security for me."
You may be joking, but I really think some of these posts may be by design. Some of these frameworks are so easy to use and in skilled hands lead to such impressive results, that it becomes harder to get a competitive advantage with UX. A single developer can do today what once took a small team. Thus we see these fucked up ladder kicking posts where people are encouraged to go use last generation tech, so they get l…
> A single developer can do today what once took a small team.
When was this, in the 80's? Web productivity is just catching up to RAD platforms like Visual Basic in the 90's and still a lot more complicated than a good UI framework like Gtk/Qt.
Re: You probably don't need that hip web framework
#50Why do we keep seeing posts like this? My team absolutely needs React/Redux/Sagas/Webpack/whatever-you-want-to-hate-on-today, to ship and yeah we ship our backend with Docker. Why do I know we need it? Because we have years of experience in our workflow and we understand the problems we need to solve in the development workflow and timeline our company uses. Do you know who doesn't understand our needs? Someone writi…
But does the customer need it? To wait for the bundle to download and parse? Doesn't the customer deserve instant loading?