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The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

theintercept.com

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Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#41

Post by nickelcitymario »

max76 wrote: post #36
nickelcitymario wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's historically accurate. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the battle cry of the revolution "no taxation without representation"? It wasn't about privacy, it was about wanting to be more than just a backwater colony.

"No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law." -- The 3rd Amendment The early revolutionary war history overly simplified is something like this. Britain increases taxes on America. America stops paying taxes. Britain increases military presence to force America to pay taxes. America fought against the Brit…

Ah, gotcha. I took it as suggesting the revolution was about privacy, but I see where I was mistaken.

Thanks!

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#42

Post by richardwhiuk »

blattimwind wrote: post #32
penagwin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somethings like spying on American phone calls (or just their "metadata") I agree with. But somethings like breaking encryption, exploiting iPhones, etc. while they may be used against Americans can also be used against others. Essentially there's an arms race, and we use our tax money to sponsor our government in this race, with the hopes that they'll side with us. There really isn't another option unless you want t…

> Somethings like spying on American phone calls (or just their "metadata") I agree with. Why keep pretending the CIA is a foreign intelligence service?

For some of us, it is.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#43

Post by saagarjha »

mywittyname wrote: post #37
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Somethings like spying on American phone calls (or just their "metadata") I agree with. > But somethings like breaking encryption, exploiting iPhones, etc. while they may be used against Americans can also be used against others. Both of these can have a chilling effect on free speech, therefore I'm against the CIA doing this to citizens. The potential threat against citizens nowhere near outweighs the need to upho…

I think we all agree that they shouldn't do this to American citizens. The problem is we can't isolate their capabilities to just foreign persons.

We could make doing this illegal and enforce it…

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#44

Post by megous »

marssaxman wrote: post #40
nickelcitymario wrote: post #5

Nothing in this article is surprising. I mean, honestly, if you don't think the CIA is actively trying to gain access to your devices, WTF do you think they do all day? I'd be more concerned if the intelligence agencies of the world WEREN'T doing this. It's their purpose. It's what we pay them for with our taxes. Of course we should also always root for tech companies to stay one step ahead. But infosec is an arms ra…

I think you all must have a different relationship with your government in Canada than US citizens do. None of these agencies are "on my own team". They are all adversaries. I feel far more threatened by US government hacking precisely because I live inside US jurisdiction. If we were to have a difference of opinions, and they were to snoop around in my data and decide they didn't like what they found, well, I'm sitt…

Poison you?

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#45

Post by avn2109 »

marssaxman wrote: post #40
nickelcitymario wrote: post #5

Nothing in this article is surprising. I mean, honestly, if you don't think the CIA is actively trying to gain access to your devices, WTF do you think they do all day? I'd be more concerned if the intelligence agencies of the world WEREN'T doing this. It's their purpose. It's what we pay them for with our taxes. Of course we should also always root for tech companies to stay one step ahead. But infosec is an arms ra…

I think you all must have a different relationship with your government in Canada than US citizens do. None of these agencies are "on my own team". They are all adversaries. I feel far more threatened by US government hacking precisely because I live inside US jurisdiction. If we were to have a difference of opinions, and they were to snoop around in my data and decide they didn't like what they found, well, I'm sitt…

+1 for the idea that I (an American citizen) would much rather have Putin or the Chinese compromising my security than most American intelligence.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#46

Post by HeWhoLurksLate »

max76 wrote: post #36
nickelcitymario wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's historically accurate. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the battle cry of the revolution "no taxation without representation"? It wasn't about privacy, it was about wanting to be more than just a backwater colony.

"No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law." -- The 3rd Amendment The early revolutionary war history overly simplified is something like this. Britain increases taxes on America. America stops paying taxes. Britain increases military presence to force America to pay taxes. America fought against the Brit…

Also, bootleggers who made money by smuggling stuff for cheap and selling it right below the full tariff price and weren't happy about the British ending their tariffs and making them lose money.

Also, the whole trial by jury of peers was really great for those like John Hancock (the guy who signed his name really big on the Constitution) who got in trouble with the British for smuggling and then would be invariably found not guilty by his employees. When military trials came into place, Hancock and his distributor buddies started getting jail time.

Also, by the way, Hancock shipping basically had a mob, who were responsible for a bunch of the rioting in Boston and likely the related Tea Party.

Just wanted to point out that America wasn't exactly formed out of ideology.

By the way- that big signature? Essentially the largest political middle finger ever.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#47

Post by friedman23 »

marssaxman wrote: post #40
nickelcitymario wrote: post #5

Nothing in this article is surprising. I mean, honestly, if you don't think the CIA is actively trying to gain access to your devices, WTF do you think they do all day? I'd be more concerned if the intelligence agencies of the world WEREN'T doing this. It's their purpose. It's what we pay them for with our taxes. Of course we should also always root for tech companies to stay one step ahead. But infosec is an arms ra…

I think you all must have a different relationship with your government in Canada than US citizens do. None of these agencies are "on my own team". They are all adversaries. I feel far more threatened by US government hacking precisely because I live inside US jurisdiction. If we were to have a difference of opinions, and they were to snoop around in my data and decide they didn't like what they found, well, I'm sitt…

>What are the Koreans or the Russians or anyone else going to do to me?

Really? You dont understand how Chinese, N. Koreans, and Russian governments can use an American citizens data to blackmail them?

Please point me to one instance of the US government blackmailing one of its own citizens or point me to an action that is comparably damaging.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#48

Post by JohnWilcox »

whatshisface wrote: post #7
nickelcitymario wrote: post #5

Nothing in this article is surprising. I mean, honestly, if you don't think the CIA is actively trying to gain access to your devices, WTF do you think they do all day? I'd be more concerned if the intelligence agencies of the world WEREN'T doing this. It's their purpose. It's what we pay them for with our taxes. Of course we should also always root for tech companies to stay one step ahead. But infosec is an arms ra…

> WTF do you think they do all day? One would hope that they were trying to gain access to someone else's devices, as opposed to turning the guns towards their own citizens and economy. If a soldier showed up at my door and pointed their gun at me, my reaction wouldn't be "of course you're doing that, your job is to point guns."

In a world where the citizenship and nationhood has been intentionally shattered to usher in a new globalist aristocratic feudal type system, where foreign threats are intentionally injected and infested and imposed upon “citizens”, you are going to see ever increasing rationalization and justification and threat events to push ever more authoritarianism to turn on their own “citizens”, more accurately described as human capital, that the elite need to shuffle around until they’re no longer needed when AI and automation and robotics takes over.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#49

Post by village-idiot »

saagarjha wrote: post #43
mywittyname wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we all agree that they shouldn't do this to American citizens. The problem is we can't isolate their capabilities to just foreign persons.

We could make doing this illegal and enforce it…

Unfortunately, other nation states might not care about US laws. Which returns to the above statement that it’s better for the CIA and Apple to be in a security arms war than it is for Apple and the FSB, at least from the perspective of an American.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#50

Post by SEJeff »

max76 wrote: post #36
nickelcitymario wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's historically accurate. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the battle cry of the revolution "no taxation without representation"? It wasn't about privacy, it was about wanting to be more than just a backwater colony.

"No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law." -- The 3rd Amendment The early revolutionary war history overly simplified is something like this. Britain increases taxes on America. America stops paying taxes. Britain increases military presence to force America to pay taxes. America fought against the Brit…

There is an unbelievably good show about this called Turn, Washington's Spies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn:_Washington%27s_Spies

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