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Why Are Economists Giving Piketty the Cold Shoulder? (2017)

bostonreview.net

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Re: Why Are Economists Giving Piketty the Cold Shoulder? (2017)

#41
post #31

This bit really struck me: “Matthew Rognlie—then a doctoral student, now an assistant professor at Northwestern—took up that line in even greater detail in an article that eventually appeared in the Brookings Papers on Economic Activity, to which he added that the rising capital-to-income ratio in Piketty’s data is disproportionately the result of the price appreciation of certain scarce stores of wealth, primarily h…

I have some problems with that same quote. The "disproportionate price appreciation of housing and the land it sits on" seems to me to be primarily a factor only in some (maybe most) large cities; outside those cities, price appreciation, perhaps excessive price appreciation, has occurred, but it's nothing like that in those few cities. My feeling is that, sure, the effect of real estate prices are large in real term…

> The "disproportionate price appreciation of housing and the land it sits on" seems to me to be primarily a factor only in some (maybe most) large cities; outside those cities, price appreciation, perhaps excessive price appreciation, has occurred, but it's nothing like that in those few cities.

But those cities are where "the 1%" live or own property, so they're the beneficiaries of the price inflation, which is precisely the issue. A rich person bought a house in SF for $500K and now it's worth $5M, a middle income person bought a house in Detroit for $200K and now it's worth $200K, a lower income person rented an apartment in SF and saw the increase as an increase in rent rather than an increase in home value.

> Further, my feeling is that real estate appreciation is an effect, not a cause. Consider the 2008 event ("circumstance?" "shenanigan?"): it was purely driven by the financial industry. It had, really, nothing to do with real estate at its core; it was caused by bad financial behavior, and the failure of the real estate market was simply how it was translated out of the finance world into the rest of the economy.

It's more like a mechanism rather than a cause or effect. You make money cheap so people borrow and bid up housing costs. This enriches the existing owners who bought before prices increased, which increases wealth inequality because they were already the ones with the most money.

The problem now is that you can't roll back the clock because transactions have already happened. Richard bought a house for $80K and sold it to Michael for $800K, because Michael needed a place to live and the bank was willing to loan him the money. If you now raise interest rates, the housing prices start to come back down, but Richard already has his $720K profit and the loss accrues to Michael who still has the $800K mortgage, and may now have to start paying higher interest on it in addition to the loss in home value.

As a result the possible solutions start to look weird. Like causing general inflation on purpose to devalue everyone's mortgage debt and allow the price of everything else (including wages) to rise to meet the cost of housing without reducing nominal housing costs which would put too many people underwater on their mortgages, and employing policies like relaxing zoning restrictions to ensure that nominal housing prices don't rise with everything else.

Re: Why Are Economists Giving Piketty the Cold Shoulder? (2017)

#42
post #3

Because, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!". Economists' careers as receivers of grants, policy advisors, members of prestigious think tanks and organizations, and pundits, depends on being good at promoting whatever aligns with the elite's interests. The scientific parts of economics are merely applied math (including game theory), and quite…

Yay. Another bash on the actually hard sciences such as neuroscience and biology, you know, the sciences that have to contend with complexity.

Re: Why Are Economists Giving Piketty the Cold Shoulder? (2017)

#43
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have some problems with that same quote. The "disproportionate price appreciation of housing and the land it sits on" seems to me to be primarily a factor only in some (maybe most) large cities; outside those cities, price appreciation, perhaps excessive price appreciation, has occurred, but it's nothing like that in those few cities. My feeling is that, sure, the effect of real estate prices are large in real term…

But then you have to ask yourself why this surge in demand for real estate in urban areas hasn't been met by a corresponding surge in supply? Why aren't developers building new apartment complexes as fast as they can to cash in? The answer is primary that regulation by local governments prevents them from doing that thereby keeping real estate prices high.

In the United States, anyway, local governments' regulation is largely driven by noisy or wealthy local residents. In most places, regulation is a minor hurdle for a decent real estate investor, all of whom regard single-family and small multi-family dwellings as a slobber-inducing opportunity when demand is high. (The high rents you can get from a quadplex are pretty small compared to the rents from a 10-story apartment building.)

So, the question is really, "if it isn't real-estate developers trying to keep rents high, who has the money and therefore power to convince the government to adopt regulations preventing apartments?"

Re: Why Are Economists Giving Piketty the Cold Shoulder? (2017)

#44
post #31

This bit really struck me: “Matthew Rognlie—then a doctoral student, now an assistant professor at Northwestern—took up that line in even greater detail in an article that eventually appeared in the Brookings Papers on Economic Activity, to which he added that the rising capital-to-income ratio in Piketty’s data is disproportionately the result of the price appreciation of certain scarce stores of wealth, primarily h…

I have some problems with that same quote. The "disproportionate price appreciation of housing and the land it sits on" seems to me to be primarily a factor only in some (maybe most) large cities; outside those cities, price appreciation, perhaps excessive price appreciation, has occurred, but it's nothing like that in those few cities. My feeling is that, sure, the effect of real estate prices are large in real term…

I agree that real estate appreciation is an effect rather than a cause. What I'm suggesting is: if Rognlie is correct, the root cause of real estate appreciation may also be the root cause of rising inequality.

I'll try to explain, giving a US-centric narrative because that's the one I know best, but similar parallel things have happened around the world.

- - - - -

Mass urbanization started in the 1800s and accelerated in the 20th century as the world transitioned from a rural/agricultural economy to an urban/industrial economy.

In the US you can see how this worked as placed like New York boomed, but also smaller cities like Buffalo, Cleveland, and many others.

This alarmed a lot of people, notably FDR. They didn't like that people were leaving smaller towns and rural areas and flocking to cities, and he wanted to try and keep the population more spread out. But they were just doing what was economically rational, getting better jobs in the city. And this is still going today -- see China, or the article on HN the other day about entire abandoned Spanish hamlets for sale).

A lot of the push back against urbanization happened via regulatory policy and infrastructure investment. A great case of this is the Rural Electrification Act in the US.

It's cost-effective to serve electricity to a city cheaply from a central plant, thus cities over a certain size (critical mass) started getting power plants and cheap electricity, whereas places below that threshold did not. There was actually a lot of innovation going on in this area, with "off grid" generation and low-power appliances etc. to serve the large, distributed rural population, but it was lagging behind the "convenience" of city power. So the US embarked on a government led program to mandate electrical service be provided to rural areas. The history of all that is complicated and I won't try to narrate it all here, but you ended up with a ton of messy side effects -- see all the land served by PG&E and the California wildfires today.

The same thing happened with roads and bridges and basically every other kind of infrastructure. Without these programs people were trending to concentrating in the larger towns around the countryside (above critical mass) and depopulating rural areas, and the programs slowed that down a lot by providing heavily subsidized infrastructure to make their life more comfortable.

At the same time a different movement was going on in cities, motivated for many reasons, to start limiting development. First it was to separate out polluting industrial factories from residential development -- arguably a very good call -- and then it spread to limit development generally and prescribe lower and lower limits to density. This was greatly aided by that same push to bring city utilities to rural areas -- the interstate highway act, for example, meant that suddenly there were vast areas a bit outside the cities that had great road access to the city center and high voltage lines etc. already going out to the farmers. Suburbanization here we come.

Well, fast forward a few generations and the economic reality of much of that infrastructure is hitting home. Why don't we build big infrastructure projects like we used to? In part it's because a huge amount of maintenance money goes to keep the rural roads and power lines operating at huge losses, to places that would probably either have been abandoned or have adapted to an alternative "off-grid" set of technologies if not for the massive infrastructure subsidy they receive.

But it's more pernicious than that, because the "spread everyone out" policies resulted in a pattern of development where most of the _urban_ areas are also below the critical population density where infrastructure has a positive return on investment. Ie. most suburban development is also an infrastructure money-loser.

These policies are becoming increasingly difficult to sustain, resulting in deferred maintenance and generally bad infrastructure across most of the land area, and also a general lack of funding to keep up with the population growth in the major cities.

And then at the same time, restrictive development policy - which is mostly concentrated on housing, not commercial development - means that housing in the cities that have the best economic opportunity for people is increasingly scarce and thus increasingly expensive.

A final tie-in to your point about financialization and financial engineering -- the increasingly Byzantine development regulations mean that it takes higher and higher skill and more and more patient capital to negotiate the development process. Whereas it used to be quite common for a family to do something like split their lot, sell it, and an individual to buy that lot and build a home on it -- now development activity is increasingly limited to high-capital sophisticated firms that can deal with the regulation and holding cost.

You also have the government funding this system via Fannie and Freddie etc., leading to the securitization of mortgages and a shift away from local savings and loan type funding. That, plus a whole generation of individuals and institutional investors believing that "your home is your best investment," so you have a giant coalition with a vested interest in housing prices steadily climbing. So it's not too surprising that you'd get a lot of financial engineering effort to try and keep the system steadily growing and that this could lead to bubbles every so often.

- - - - -

Whew. That's an attempt to summarize over a decade of reading and observation on my part, so I apologize it's rather long and rambly. But I hope that gives you some better illustrations for how this whole thing seems interconnected to me.

Re: Why Are Economists Giving Piketty the Cold Shoulder? (2017)

#45
post #18
post #3

Because, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!". Economists' careers as receivers of grants, policy advisors, members of prestigious think tanks and organizations, and pundits, depends on being good at promoting whatever aligns with the elite's interests. The scientific parts of economics are merely applied math (including game theory), and quite…

To an extent, I suspect you're right. I further suspect that economists, as a field, will continue to claim that their models, metrics, theories, and policy advice are good, while complaining about the inexplicable rise of populism, right up until somebody sets up a guillotine in front of Goldman-Sachs. (Populism is easy to explain: the peasants are revolting.)

Populism is a major problem, and one which is based on unscrupulous politicians taking advantage of the ignorance and prejudice while promissing unrealisting and outright impossible solutions to problems that they missrepresent and even invent.

And that has absolutely zero to do with science in general and economic models in particular.

Time and again we see populist politicians fanning up the masses with anti-capitalist rhetoric that is absolute bullshit from the start, and they routinely attack economic problems by disregarding basic facts of nature with assertions involving silly conspiracy theories always attributing blame to their political opponents and scapegoats. Every time this happens it does not mean that science failed or that there is a massive conspiracy theory keeping the socialist man down. It just means that disregarding science has serious consequences that no totalitarian regime can quelsh no matter how many gillotines they set up in feont of Goldman-Sachs.

Re: Why Are Economists Giving Piketty the Cold Shoulder? (2017)

#46
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have some problems with that same quote. The "disproportionate price appreciation of housing and the land it sits on" seems to me to be primarily a factor only in some (maybe most) large cities; outside those cities, price appreciation, perhaps excessive price appreciation, has occurred, but it's nothing like that in those few cities. My feeling is that, sure, the effect of real estate prices are large in real term…

> The "disproportionate price appreciation of housing and the land it sits on" seems to me to be primarily a factor only in some (maybe most) large cities; outside those cities, price appreciation, perhaps excessive price appreciation, has occurred, but it's nothing like that in those few cities. But those cities are where "the 1%" live or own property, so they're the beneficiaries of the price inflation, which is pr…

The hyper-inflation fix is the only "solution" I've heard in serious discussions on this mess. It's sort of insane, but when you dig into it, it maybe the least bad choice as far as bringing a healthy equilibrium back to the economy without economically devastating huge chunks of the population.

Re: Why Are Economists Giving Piketty the Cold Shoulder? (2017)

#47

Because he's wrong, and people who stake their livelihood on these things (not academic economists) know it and act accordingly.

Genuinely asking: why is he wrong?

There are problems with the data and methods Piketty used. The Wikipedia entry for the book has a summary including multiple references:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_in_the_Twenty-First_Ce...

Re: Why Are Economists Giving Piketty the Cold Shoulder? (2017)

#48
We are in some ways victims of the Long Peace.

There hasn't been a large-scale war since WWII. Obviously there have been numerous conflicts since but these haven't occurred in the developed world and have largely been contained geographically.

Obviously those conflicts are bad for those stuck where they occur and it's good there hasn't been such a conflict, particularly now we're in the nuclear age. But war and revolution served a peculiar economic purpose too: they were the ultimate form of wealth redistribution.

It's why the Patricians of Rome don't own the world today.

The public is also increasingly apathetic. The French Revolution redistributed the wealth of the French aristocracy. But we now live in an era where people don't care enough to vote or they limit their "activism" to liking an image deriding the latest Trump scandal on Facebook.

Some like Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg have committed to not handling $100B+ to their descendants but it doesn't take many to essentially establish a permanent ruling class in all but name.

Unfortunately we live in an era where the ultra-wealthy are increasingly unwilling to pay for the infrastructure and political stability that made and continues to make their wealth possible.

It's easy to see a dystopian future that results from nothing more than local optima of the ultra-wealthy minimizing their own tax liability because there's apparently a difference between having $70B and $75B.

I'm not sure you can (or should) appeal to economists humanity to make them care about income inequality. It's perhaps better to argue that income inequality has limits. At some point, no one can afford anything and the whole system grinds to a halt or war and/or revolution "solves" that inequality and it's in the long term interests of pretty much everyone to avoid that.

Re: Why Are Economists Giving Piketty the Cold Shoulder? (2017)

#49
post #3

Because, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!". Economists' careers as receivers of grants, policy advisors, members of prestigious think tanks and organizations, and pundits, depends on being good at promoting whatever aligns with the elite's interests. The scientific parts of economics are merely applied math (including game theory), and quite…

Exactly. Capital was years in the making and contained an unprecedented amount of historical empirical data to support its central thesis, and it gets ignored. Meanwhile, Reinhart-Rogoff, a fraudulent paper full of elementary statistical and programming errors that should’ve gotten its authors fired, was loudly paraded around as gospel by politicians on both sides of the Atlantic. Guess which one served elite interes…

It's outright stupid to pin the blame on what you perceive to be a problem on a single academic paper, even if it was authored by outstanding academics such as Reinhart or Rogoff. It's even stupider to argue that scientists should be fired for publishing a paper that goes against your political values.

Re: Why Are Economists Giving Piketty the Cold Shoulder? (2017)

#50
post #3

Because, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!". Economists' careers as receivers of grants, policy advisors, members of prestigious think tanks and organizations, and pundits, depends on being good at promoting whatever aligns with the elite's interests. The scientific parts of economics are merely applied math (including game theory), and quite…

The original criticism is that Piketty is a strongly normative economist whose views bounce off most of the field. Your criticism is that economics is too normative and should be less so and focused on math instead.

It is hard to square your criticism in a way that leads to people paying more attention to Piketty.

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