European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes • Hacker News Board

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#41

Post by qalmakka » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

renholder wrote: post #8

wongarsu wrote: post #2

I'm glad we are getting rid of daylight savings time. It's a biannual disruption of sleep cycles that costs lives (in increased accident rates) for at best marginal benefits: for most of europe sunrise and sunset times change too fast for an additional hour to really matter. Still, I think given the choice most people would have prefered to stay in summer time instead of winter time (or equivalently: to abolish DST a…

> Under the new legislation, governments opting to make summer time permanent would adjust their clocks for the last time on the last Sunday in March 2021. For those choosing permanent standard time - also called winter time - the final clock change would be on the last Sunday of October 2021. It's down to the member states to decide but I think most would prefer summer; save for maybe the Nordics, where the vast dif…

I think countries on a blatantly wrong timezone such as Spain should take this opportunity to fix it. For instance, Spain could stay in UTC+1 all year round and go back in the same timezone as Portugal (which is going to certainly pick its summer time as its whole-year round timezone), thus eliminating the artificial shift everything has there (people eat lunch at 14 and dinner at 22, but these times match roughly with 13 and 21 in solar time).

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#42

Post by aequitas » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

seanalltogether wrote: post #38

People often say they would rather have permanent summer time, but from observation it seems everyone sets their rhythm around solar noon regardless, so why not make noon = noon. During the summer months Spain's solar noon is between 2 and 2:30pm. Guess what time Spaniards sit down to eat lunch? In the summer the UKs solar noon is around 1pm, guess what time all the office workers pour out on the streets to eat lunch…

Summertime sounds better than wintertime because of the association with summer. Give people the choice between UTC+1 or UTC+2 and you will get wildly different answers.

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#43

Post by chopin » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:53 PM UTC

zaarn wrote: post #15

setr wrote: post #3

>The proposal would give each member state a choice from 2021: either to keep the current summer time system or scrap the twice-yearly clock changes So if you travelled vertically within a timezone, you could end up going back and forth by an hour repeatedly, depending on the state’s decision made here? Truly, a design made by committee.

There is already no single timezone, with the possible exception of a timezone in the deep pacific, that would allow you to go from south to north without adjusting your clock once.

See eg. https://www.timeanddate.com/time/map/

There are a few more longitudes for which it works but not that much...

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#44

Post by Lunanne » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #18

renholder wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Under the new legislation, governments opting to make summer time permanent would adjust their clocks for the last time on the last Sunday in March 2021. For those choosing permanent standard time - also called winter time - the final clock change would be on the last Sunday of October 2021. It's down to the member states to decide but I think most would prefer summer; save for maybe the Nordics, where the vast dif…

Even in the Nordics, eternal summer time would be preferrable for most people I think. It gives you more sunlight in the afternoon (if I'm not mistaken), when you actually have some free time to utilize that fact. Who cares if it's light or dark in the morning, nobody is outside enjoying the weather at that time anyway, we're just trying to get everyone to school/work.

When I had to bike 6km to school in the Netherlands I was always very happy with the DST switch to wintertime because it meant biking in daylight a bit longer. In summertime sunrise would be at 9:48 am - I really think that is quite late.

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#45

Post by delinka » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

otabdeveloper1 wrote: post #39

seanalltogether wrote: post #38

People often say they would rather have permanent summer time, but from observation it seems everyone sets their rhythm around solar noon regardless, so why not make noon = noon. During the summer months Spain's solar noon is between 2 and 2:30pm. Guess what time Spaniards sit down to eat lunch? In the summer the UKs solar noon is around 1pm, guess what time all the office workers pour out on the streets to eat lunch…

Because in the northern latitudes there is no such thing as 'noon'.

There is indeed a highest point the sun reaches during the day. It's known as "solar noon."

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#46

Post by rfergie » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:58 PM UTC

otabdeveloper1 wrote: post #39

seanalltogether wrote: post #38

People often say they would rather have permanent summer time, but from observation it seems everyone sets their rhythm around solar noon regardless, so why not make noon = noon. During the summer months Spain's solar noon is between 2 and 2:30pm. Guess what time Spaniards sit down to eat lunch? In the summer the UKs solar noon is around 1pm, guess what time all the office workers pour out on the streets to eat lunch…

Because in the northern latitudes there is no such thing as 'noon'.

I don't understand? Are you talking about days in winter where the sun doesn't rise at all?

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#47

Post by qwsxyh » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:59 PM UTC

renholder wrote: post #8

wongarsu wrote: post #2

I'm glad we are getting rid of daylight savings time. It's a biannual disruption of sleep cycles that costs lives (in increased accident rates) for at best marginal benefits: for most of europe sunrise and sunset times change too fast for an additional hour to really matter. Still, I think given the choice most people would have prefered to stay in summer time instead of winter time (or equivalently: to abolish DST a…

> Under the new legislation, governments opting to make summer time permanent would adjust their clocks for the last time on the last Sunday in March 2021. For those choosing permanent standard time - also called winter time - the final clock change would be on the last Sunday of October 2021. It's down to the member states to decide but I think most would prefer summer; save for maybe the Nordics, where the vast dif…

Here in the UK permenant summer time would mean sunrise would be 9am during the depths of winter. That sounds like a great way to make more accidents (as everyone is now driving to work in the dark at 8am) and also make the seasonal depression worse.

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#48

Post by mcjiggerlog » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:59 PM UTC

qalmakka wrote: post #41

renholder wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Under the new legislation, governments opting to make summer time permanent would adjust their clocks for the last time on the last Sunday in March 2021. For those choosing permanent standard time - also called winter time - the final clock change would be on the last Sunday of October 2021. It's down to the member states to decide but I think most would prefer summer; save for maybe the Nordics, where the vast dif…

I think countries on a blatantly wrong timezone such as Spain should take this opportunity to fix it. For instance, Spain could stay in UTC+1 all year round and go back in the same timezone as Portugal (which is going to certainly pick its summer time as its whole-year round timezone), thus eliminating the artificial shift everything has there (people eat lunch at 14 and dinner at 22, but these times match roughly wi…

What exactly makes it "wrong"? I live in Spain and am perfectly happy with our current timezone and daylight saving. Staying on Winter time just means we get an hour of useless light long before anybody has woken up and take it away from the evening where it is far more appreciated.

The spanish public have already been shown to be massively in favor of staying on UTC+2 year-round, though this would mean that the sun wouldn't rise till 0930 in the depths of Winter.

I think once the government actually stops and takes a look at the repercussions of all options we will end up carrying on with the status quo.

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#49

Post by IanPBann » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 2:01 PM UTC

sergioisidoro wrote: post #16

setr wrote: post #3

>The proposal would give each member state a choice from 2021: either to keep the current summer time system or scrap the twice-yearly clock changes So if you travelled vertically within a timezone, you could end up going back and forth by an hour repeatedly, depending on the state’s decision made here? Truly, a design made by committee.

Note that the article is incorrect. I just went thought the proposal and what member states can choose is between keeping summer ot winter time! quote: "Consequently, the Commission proposes to discontinue the seasonal time changes in the Union, while ensuring that Member States retain the competence to decide on their standard time, in particular whether they will move to the standard time corresponding to their sum…

The comment you replied to is correct based on what you said - if you start in a state in permanent summer time, travel south to a state in permanent winter time, keep travelling south to a state in permanent summer time, and so on, you will be going back and forth by an hour repeatedly.

Hypothetically, if you start just north of Sittard and east of the German/Netherlands border (in Germany), and travel in a straight line, almost due south to Geneva in Switzerland, you could, depending on what time member states choose to permanently adopt, potentially go from German summertime, to Dutch wintertime, to Belgian summertime, to Luxembourgish wintertime, to French summertime, to Swiss wintertime, all in under 350 miles and with not much deviation in longitude.

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#50

Post by madcaptenor » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 2:03 PM UTC

BerislavLopac wrote: post #21

renholder wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So if you travelled vertically within a timezone, you could end up going back and forth by an hour repeatedly, depending on the state’s decision made here? See: Arizona

You already have that in EU -- Spain is observing CET (and its summer equivalent CEST) even though it is pretty much completely in the same time zone as Great Britain.

And Portugal is on GMT, so you have a bit of Spain (GMT+1) that's due north of Portugal (GMT) and borders it by land.

(and most of Portugal is west of 7.5 degrees west so "should" be GMT-1... but really in any sane time zone scheme Portugal and Spain would have the same time.)