Women: Learn to Program This Summer • Hacker News Board

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#41

Post by tqkxzugoaupvwqr » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

seancoleman wrote: post #28

My girlfriend, a nurse of 10+ years, just started learning to code on her own, built her first (basic) website ( https://www.nataliepeterson.dev ) and is applying to Lambda School already. I sent this to her this morning and she was elated. Programs like this really work.

For whatever reason this website feels so personal. Instant flashbacks to the 2000s. I love it.

Hint for picking a random image when clicking on the image: The currently shown image should be excluded from the list of images to draw from. This prevents the problem that sometimes clicks appear to do nothing, although in reality the same image was randomly picked again.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#42

Post by sisu2019 » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

you wont change fewer women programmers because, wait for it, women tend to have personality traits that do not go well together with coding.

Of course, feel free to waste your money and your reputation doing this pointless virtue signaling anyway.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#43

Post by TheAdamAndChe » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

There will be benefits to this program for those who participate, and I wholly wish those women who have the opportunity to participate the best of luck.

However, I also worry about the motives behind the program. A huge part of feminism is a push towards gender equality[1]. Discriminating against half of the population while aiming for equality is an odd way to behave.

I know the blog post did not mention gender equality as a goal, but I just completely fail to see how discrimination like this will lead to anything but increased inter-gender conflict and the persistence of stereotypes in the field.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#44

Post by alexashka » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

'breaking into the startup world' - sigh... How do you break into being a domain expert via 5-10+ years of experience?

What do people think start-ups are exactly? Random people with no domain expertise coding their way to great products?

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#45

Post by pacala » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

manfredo wrote: post #25

rosterface wrote: post #3

I recently completed a very difficult job search where I unfortunately had to lean on my ethnicity (I’m Mexican) to pass through very overt screening against white men. I was shocked to hear from multiple companies, large and small, that they did not want men and white men in particular. Now we see a YC co-founder giving 40 women $9000 to learn to program. Where does it end? I was really sad that while I personally c…

I can confirm your observations. At my company we have a couple policies. 1. We only accept applicstions from candidate from non-traditional backgrounds if they're diverse. Diverse is defined as any of the following: women, black, Hispanic, or native American - maybe also veterans but I'm not sure. Non-traditional background means coming from a coding boot camp, or majoring in a non-computing related field. I think a…

> Diverse candidates get two attempts to pass the technical phone interview, non diverse get one.

These rhyme with soviet era policies circa 1950-1960 in Eastern Europe. At universities, there was an admission exam for 'healthy origin' people for the majority of the spots, and then another exam where everybody, including those failing the first time, could compete for the scraps. We all know how that turned out economically speaking.

Seeing the same policies in XXI century USA is surreal.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#46

Post by commandlinefan » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

pacala wrote: post #26

jakelazaroff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We never really valued skills over demographics — it's just much less visible where it benefits a dominant group. Consider that the percentage of VC deals with female-founded companies is 5.4% and yet they receive only 2.2% of VC dollars [1]. This has held true for over a decade: the average female founders have received less than their average male counterparts. But for some reason, there aren't many people complain…

Never heard of an open and blatant 'women need not apply' in the 20 years I've been in the US. Not in the universities, not in the workplace, not anywhere. Not sure about NFL policies, though there aren't that many 6 foot 250 pounds fit women out there. Pretty sure there is no VC advertising 'we will fund no women' out there, if it were there would be a huge press coverage. And yet, the OP is openly and blatant 'men…

> an open and blatant 'women need not apply'

If anything, it's been the other way around for at least as long as I've been alive.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#47

Post by fzeroracer » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 5:56 PM UTC

i_am_proteus wrote: post #33

rosterface wrote: post #3

I recently completed a very difficult job search where I unfortunately had to lean on my ethnicity (I’m Mexican) to pass through very overt screening against white men. I was shocked to hear from multiple companies, large and small, that they did not want men and white men in particular. Now we see a YC co-founder giving 40 women $9000 to learn to program. Where does it end? I was really sad that while I personally c…

> We use inclusive definitions of “women” and “female” and welcome trans women, genderqueer women, and non-binary people who are female-identified. If you are interested in the program, it seems like you could identify yourself as female and apply. Especially if there's no in-person interview. Cynically, if enough [biological males who identify as] men elect to identify as women for this application, the selection te…

This is a great way to get a company to instantly reject you at the interview step if they have one or fired shortly after being hired.

Because, you know, most companies look up the profile of candidates on LinkedIn, social media etc. Unless you actually consider yourself transgender, you would quickly be caught and removed just as quickly.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#48

Post by adingus » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 5:56 PM UTC

mettamage wrote: post #37

If it's an online programming class, then why not extent the offer to people based outside the US? This US protectionism thing is driving me crazy. I'll offer my services to Lambda School and/or YC for free if that means I can extent this offer to EU people, provided that my living expenses are covered. I'm in between jobs so I have the perfect schedule for it. I'm from the EU.

It says why in the article. You should read it.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#49

Post by immad » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 5:57 PM UTC

alexashka wrote: post #44

'breaking into the startup world' - sigh... How do you break into being a domain expert via 5-10+ years of experience? What do people think start-ups are exactly? Random people with no domain expertise coding their way to great products?

Someone might have 20 years of relevant domain experience and no coding experience.

Also one can't get to 5 years without doing the 1st year. So I don't really see your point.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#50

Post by nck4222 » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 5:57 PM UTC

I'm trying to figure out on what side of the debate I fall on this one.

On the one hand, women have obviously been disadvantaged in many ways, for many years, which is wrong. The gender disparity in software development is well documented, and should be fixed. No one should be discouraged from learning, or opportunities denied because of gender.

On the other hand, a for-profit company deciding to offer free services to individual women, who may or may not be disadvantaged, simply because they're women, doesn't sit well with me either. Frankly, it seems likely that anyone who applies to lambda school (either gender), probably lean towards the more advantaged end than the less advantaged end. So it seems likely this is going to result in women with plenty of advantages already, receiving $9000 worth of education for free, while explicitly denying this opportunity to men, and continuing to disadvantage members of both groups.

So, I guess my question is, why is this morally OK? If this was targeted specifically to disadvantaged people, or disadvantaged women, or if it was a non-profit, it seems like this would be an easier call for me.