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China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

bloomberg.com

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Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#41

Post by lykr0n »

Razengan wrote: post #26

Excuse me for this tangent, but when it comes to environmental concerns, why do we still skirt around the largest elephant in the room? Curbing population growth. We have laws against almost every "natural human instinct/desire": X Murder X Rape X Theft, even if you're stealing food when you're starving X Taking shelter in property that you don't own, even if you were freezing to death X In some countries: Being with…

I agree. We need to not only stop using polluting vehicles, but also reduce the number of people consuming products.

Honestly, the problem is going to solve itself. We're going to see devastating natural disasters and famines. We're going to see causalities like we've never seen. We're going to see massive die-offs of the poor in countries that are in the direct path- coastal countries, Africa, and middle east.

I know I'm going to get hate for this, but the US and other western countries are going to have to face the realities that they are going to need to lock down their borders as we're going to have massive refugee problems. I don't agree with Trump 90% of the time, but he is putting in place a framework that will be used in the next 10 years to keep the onslaught of refugees. America has it good. We can survive the storm, but most of the world will not be so lucky.

And words cannot express what I feel. This whole thing sucks. It's going to hurt. And it's the kind of thing where we can't save everyone.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#42

Post by radium3d »

Razengan wrote: post #26

Excuse me for this tangent, but when it comes to environmental concerns, why do we still skirt around the largest elephant in the room? Curbing population growth. We have laws against almost every "natural human instinct/desire": X Murder X Rape X Theft, even if you're stealing food when you're starving X Taking shelter in property that you don't own, even if you were freezing to death X In some countries: Being with…

China is a place to look for an example of what happens when you do this. Primarily, too many elderly. Here is an interesting discussion about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5jJDywBHwA

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#43

Post by twblalock »

hawkice wrote: post #31
twblalock wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The framing of the article is that oil companies need to be more concerned about the Chinese buses than about Tesla. It's a simple rhetorical device, not a statement that Tesla does not matter.

I've sometimes been concerned that headline writing is (metaphorically) subcontracted to buzzfeed everywhere, NYT, The Atlantic, Bloomberg, just about everywhere.

People talk about "clickbait" but it's not really new. On a website, or the pages of a paper newspaper, there is a bunch of stuff vying for readers' attention and the headline has always been a way of making stories seem interesting.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#44

Post by hyeonwho4 »

saagarjha wrote: post #4
austincheney wrote: post #2

Then just imagine if shipping tankers became electrified. The world's 6 largest shipping tankers produce more CO2 than all the world's personal vehicles combined.

Could you say put solar panels on large tankers?

Not really. A TI-class supertanker has a length of 380m, breadth of 68m, for a surface area of less than 7 acres, and run on a 37,450 kW engine. (Wikipedia). Meanwhile, a 50 MW solar installation in Ohio takes 500 acres of space.(https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/anatomy-of-a-50...). You would need to find a way to increase the surface area by a factor of 10 without ruining the aerodynamics, or use wind power instead.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#45

Post by mamon »

Razengan wrote: post #26

Excuse me for this tangent, but when it comes to environmental concerns, why do we still skirt around the largest elephant in the room? Curbing population growth. We have laws against almost every "natural human instinct/desire": X Murder X Rape X Theft, even if you're stealing food when you're starving X Taking shelter in property that you don't own, even if you were freezing to death X In some countries: Being with…

Rape or murder are not natural instincts. In fact people have pretty good safeguards against killing others - seeing the oponent bleeding usually makes even a furious man cool off.

And regarding limiting population growth, what solution could possible be there that would be acceptable in a liberal democracy (i.e. does not require authoritarian regime controlling your every move, or the biggest genocide in history of mankind)?

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#46

Post by [deleted] »

Razengan wrote: post #26

Excuse me for this tangent, but when it comes to environmental concerns, why do we still skirt around the largest elephant in the room? Curbing population growth. We have laws against almost every "natural human instinct/desire": X Murder X Rape X Theft, even if you're stealing food when you're starving X Taking shelter in property that you don't own, even if you were freezing to death X In some countries: Being with…

[deleted]

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#47

Post by jwr »

siculars wrote: post #11

This is a very good way to think about the price of goods. When supply and demand are in relative equilibrium price remains stable and reflects the cost of production plus some margin for manufacturers. When you trim demand even slightly by a few percent - which EVs in their various forms will inevitably do - what happens to price? Where is the new demand for oil to compensate? Jet fuel? I believe price per unit oil…

The price of oil is unrealistic, because it does not reflect the terrible damage to our planet. In other words, the current price can be so low because we are "borrowing" the planet from our children and grandchildren. We get cheap oil because they will not have a planet to live on.

If the price were to include a carbon tax, it would likely be at least ten times higher and we would very quickly get rid of our beloved gas guzzlers.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#48

Post by [deleted] »

Razengan wrote: post #26

Excuse me for this tangent, but when it comes to environmental concerns, why do we still skirt around the largest elephant in the room? Curbing population growth. We have laws against almost every "natural human instinct/desire": X Murder X Rape X Theft, even if you're stealing food when you're starving X Taking shelter in property that you don't own, even if you were freezing to death X In some countries: Being with…

[deleted]

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#49

Post by arcticbull »

mikeash wrote: post #20
Someone1234 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody sane would give civilians in a poorly regulated sector nuclear fuel and expect them to operate a generator safely. It is even debatable if the US using nuclear power on their subs/warships is wise. It is great for natural disasters relief (mobile power plant) but terrifying if the US ever loses one.

The US has lost several, as have the Soviets and Russians.

92 lost nuclear warheads including one near Seattle/Vancouver, one near New York and one near Miami (https://genecurtis.wordpress.com/2011/11/12/lost-nuclear-bom...)

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#50

Post by manicdee »

Razengan wrote: post #26

Excuse me for this tangent, but when it comes to environmental concerns, why do we still skirt around the largest elephant in the room? Curbing population growth. We have laws against almost every "natural human instinct/desire": X Murder X Rape X Theft, even if you're stealing food when you're starving X Taking shelter in property that you don't own, even if you were freezing to death X In some countries: Being with…

Any attempt to discuss population control will be met with accusations of eugenics and genocide. So what you do instead is promote women’s rights, education about contraception and birth control, health care for children, immunisations, etc.

It turn out that education and empowerment of this kind (especially where you can show women that their children will survive and that everyone can get an education and a job) will naturally lead to lower fertility rates. Apparently women aren’t all hormone driven baby factories (who knew?) and given a voice in the matter will generally prefer fewer children (and more time to pursue life outside raising babies).

So if you support zero or negative population growth, you can do a lot worse than donating to Plan International and other charities specialising in education and support of women in developing nations.

You can empower people (especially women, a commonly oppressed class), save the world from overpopulation, uncover the next generation of genius-entrepreneur, and do this all without being labelled a villain.

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