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Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

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Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#41

Post by kirkules »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #24

I do wonder when humanity will change our ways to stop wrecking the only planet we have, while there's still a chance. First step is acknowledging plastic is a systemic problem that is rapidly becoming more trouble than it is worth. Then regulation to require degradable alternatives, re-use and dramatically reduce our consumption in the first place. Or do we just keep relying on the economic myth of infinite growth u…

Plastic is just an example. Greenhouse gases are another.

The system in which it's a systemic problem already has and will continue to introduce other such problems. And it's more than just that "under capitalism there is no incentive to eliminate negative externalities", which is certainly true; without a way to avoid unaccountable concentrations of power, concentrated power will reinforce itself and find a way to cheat any system oriented toward the greater good.

I'm not convinced it's possible in the long run to avoid the existence of these problems. Our best hope is faster and faster problem recognition, and magically broad solutions that work faster than the problems' deterioration.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#42

Post by inertiatic »

EGreg wrote: post #25
jl2718 wrote: post #4

Third grade me believed that my recycling got recycled. But it didn’t. We paid extra taxes for corrupt deals to get it dumped in the ocean. That was my plastic that killed the whale. Why did they lie to me? I did always wonder where all the recycling plants were. Would it really have been worse if we had put it in the landfill?

Government propped up fossil fuels and held back electric cars since 1910. We could have had CHOICE in how our energy is generated. Why in all this time haven’t some alternatives to non-biodegradable plastic emerged?

Government did that? They had no reason to unless it's policies were dictated by someone who stood to benefit from such a thing. And then you shouldn't simply blame the government who is just an intermediary in this case.

I'd suggest taking your analysis a step further.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#43

Post by thereare5lights »

chrisco255 wrote: post #27
A2017U1 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are claiming China paid money for recycling waste and then threw it straight in the ocean? Seems incredibly implausible.

Nah we paid China to "recycle" trash. And instead of actually recycling they just pocketed the money and dumped it.

That makes no sense. If they were doing that, why would they stop taking free money.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#44

Post by cesis »

cageface wrote: post #35

These stories rarely mention this for some reason but the bulk of the plastic junk in the ocean is discarded fishing nets, not consumer waste. Reducing the plastic waste you personally generate is still a good idea, of course, but if you really want to have an impact then stop eating fish. https://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/ocean-plastic-made-disca... https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-ga...

Farmed fish is already more than 50% of market share

https://qz.com/730794/the-future-is-here-people-are-now-eati...

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#45

Post by inertiatic »

RileyJames wrote: post #40
EGreg wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stores should provide non plastic bags and give you a large discount for returning/reusing them.

Agreed. But their latest option is going to be “reusable plastic bags”, which means stronger plastic bags, containing more plastic, which many customers will still treat as disposable. I’m confused as to how that’s a step forward. How fucking hard is it to use the trolley to move your goods to your car, and then into your cupboard? You managed to collect all the goods and get them to the register without any bags...

It's surely less convenient than paying for and using a cheap bag.

Also, it would work in the specific situation you're describing (driving up to the store, parking back close to your house), but it doesn't really help in a lot of other use cases, so it can't be a universal solution.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#46

Post by benj111 »

wespiser_2018 wrote: post #19
benj111 wrote: post #6

"According to the U.N. Environment Programme, some 9 million tons of plastic end up in the ocean each year. According to a 2017 study from the environmental group Ocean Conservancy, more than half of that waste comes from just five countries in East and Southeast Asia — China, Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam." Does anyone know how this fits in with plastic 'recycling'? These nations either were or ar…

Imported plastic is only 12% of China's plastic waste. It turns out consumer plastic is just to varied, too contaminated, and too low valued to reliably recycle. More info here: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2018/11/china...

That's pre ban btw, now its virtually nil.

FTA (you linked to) "estimates that China’s waste purchases this year amount to just one percent of the eight million tons it once bought every year."

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#47

Post by iainmerrick »

RileyJames wrote: post #40
EGreg wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stores should provide non plastic bags and give you a large discount for returning/reusing them.

Agreed. But their latest option is going to be “reusable plastic bags”, which means stronger plastic bags, containing more plastic, which many customers will still treat as disposable. I’m confused as to how that’s a step forward. How fucking hard is it to use the trolley to move your goods to your car, and then into your cupboard? You managed to collect all the goods and get them to the register without any bags...

I’m with you in principle, but to answer that last question -- quite hard?

Getting the groceries into your car is easy, but the last step of carrying them into your kitchen is hard. Unless you take the trolley home.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#48

Post by blotter_paper »

wespiser_2018 wrote: post #9
eecc wrote: post #3

Just like Climate Change, oceanic plastic pollution is a case of Tragedy of the commons. I can separate my waste and recycle as much as I want (and I do!) but it’s all useless if a random idiot proceeds to dump my weekly household recycling output into a river and call it a day. This is nothing that can be solved with personal initiative and responsibility; it requires international regulation and enforcement. There’…

I disagree. Tragedy of the Commons is a situation that is about the management of wildlife and natural resources for the purposes of maximizing yield, with the lesson being regulated consumption results in maximal natural harvest. Pollution is just a negative economic externality, or consequence of an action that is unseen by the participants, where more pollution is always worse. Unfortunately, no one owns the ocean…

>Unfortunately, no one owns the oceans, and the normal ways for resolving externalities don't work without an aggrieved property owner.

Hmm, so if we want to reduce human pollution of the oceans... we just need to colonize the oceans!

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#49

Post by WalterBright »

jl2718 wrote: post #4

Third grade me believed that my recycling got recycled. But it didn’t. We paid extra taxes for corrupt deals to get it dumped in the ocean. That was my plastic that killed the whale. Why did they lie to me? I did always wonder where all the recycling plants were. Would it really have been worse if we had put it in the landfill?

I don't really understand what's wrong with putting it in a landfill. If it's inert, it shouldn't cause any harm. Animals don't eat buried plastic.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#50

Post by WalterBright »

EGreg wrote: post #25
jl2718 wrote: post #4

Third grade me believed that my recycling got recycled. But it didn’t. We paid extra taxes for corrupt deals to get it dumped in the ocean. That was my plastic that killed the whale. Why did they lie to me? I did always wonder where all the recycling plants were. Would it really have been worse if we had put it in the landfill?

Government propped up fossil fuels and held back electric cars since 1910. We could have had CHOICE in how our energy is generated. Why in all this time haven’t some alternatives to non-biodegradable plastic emerged?

My reading was that electric cars were edged out because of poor battery life compared to gas. Edison tried for many years to invent a better battery, and failed.
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