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What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

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Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#41

Post by grey-area »

prepend wrote: post #26
grey-area wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Trump family are not likely criminals, they are criminals, guilty of perjury before congress (Jared), violation of the emoluments clause (Trump), intimidating witnesses (Trump), interfering with the AG (Trump), collusion with the Saudis (Jared), bribery (Trump), adultery (Trump), assault (Trump on his 1st wife). The only thing which is not out in the open (though highly likely to be at some point) is collusion wi…

I think a qualification really helps here. By definition, criminal requires a guilty verdict. So while it can be productive to state opinion that someone may be guilty of criminal acts. The key part is a trial and conviction, before pronouncing someone guilty. Using precise language makes it less likely to be spun around and arguing with others who disagree, I think.

When they admit guilt, or it is done in plain sight, I don't think you need a court verdict.

For example Jared did lie to congress (along with many other Trump appointments):

https://www.justsecurity.org/61682/perjury-chart-trump-assoc...

Trump and his attorney Cohen did intimidate and bribe witnesses (to adultery):

See the link below, and his admission that he paid off the prostitute Stormy Daniels.

Trump did assault his first wife, and has been accused by multiple other women:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/24/documenting-tr...

Trump has not properly divested himself of his businesses, and violated emoluments rules on multiple occasions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/05/15...

These are not opinions or speculation.

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#42

Post by zzzeek »

antt wrote: post #32
zzzeek wrote: post #9

[flagged]

>I also call them "unindicted co-conspirators in multiple federal crimes". Now who does everyone think I'm describing? The Clintons? > There is no comparison to anything here not even Richard Nixon. I'd compare him to Kennedy. Minus the mob 'losing' a few ballot boxes for him. It's unfortunate that otherwise intelligent people minds shut down when partisanship comes into play.

> The Clintons?

Please share the legal filing where the Clintons were named as Individual 1 and Individual 2 as those who directed the crime to take place, in a criminal case by federal prosecutors.

> It's unfortunate that otherwise intelligent people minds shut down when partisanship comes into play.

this is nonsense. Democrats are indicted and convicted of crimes as well and there is no need to deny these facts - Bob Menendez should likely have resigned, Anthony Weiner went to prison, Rod Blagoyovich is I think still serving time for widespread corruption. These people are criminals. The Clintons played fast and loose with rules but they are not in the same universe as even garden variety criminals much less the Trumps. You have to at least be indicted or in Trump's case named as an unindicted coconspirator for indicted parties for "criminality" to have a bit of a factual basis.

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#43

Post by tuckfrump »

eeeeeeeeeeeee wrote: post #28
throwdaddy425 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People can downvote you, but that doesn't make what you're saying any less true. Analysts agree that Trump used these sorts of tactics to win the election.

I don't think the OP is being downvoted for saying Trump is a populist, but for drawing a false equivalence between Trump and AOC. I think you need more than "they are populists" to throw them in the same boat, it should be well supported. AOC uses Twitter and social media well, just as Trump does, but are they really using it the same way, to the same ends? I have yet to see AOC just straight up lie like Trump does…

This OP lost me at drawing the characature of both politicians. However one’s predominant biography will be racism, rank corruption and criminality and the other, hopefully will move us toward an America where more people pay their fair share and we all don’t have to go bankrupt from medical bills.

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#44

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

The legacy, industrial-era institutions are what support abundant and cheap access to information.

If belief in our traditional institutions crumbles due to cheap information, information asymmetry once again will rise, returning us to the prior era.

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#45

Post by macspoofing »

MereInterest wrote: post #25
macspoofing wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you proved OPs point.

I don't think that is the case. You can make any two disparate groups look similar by leaving out crucial details. For example, suppose I describe a "Band of misfits from the middle of nowhere, working against the Empire that brought war to their homeland, striking against a symbol of that Empire." That could describe either the Star Wars Rebellion, or the 9/11 terrorists. The key is that I left out critical details…

I understand what you're trying to say, but the point is Trump just isn't as bad as he's made out to be by some segments of the population. And everything he does tends to be inflated and exaggerated FAR past any reasonable point.

Not to mention the fact that he has a hostile media and the entire cultural segment (from sports athletes to celebrities) to contend with, a hostile Congress (certainly the House, and even the Senate), a judiciary that blocks him at every turn (and frequently overstepping their bounds), and an existing regulatory, and military hierarchy that is tepid (at best) towards him and has him in check. There's also a pending independent investigation that is looking at the more egregious accusations (for which we have no evidence at this point).

We had 2 years of Trump, and so far, his tenure has been a nothing burger compared to the Bush years, and the beginning of the Obama years when the entire economy was at risk of collapse. His tweets do suck, but everyone just ignores them now. He shit-posts on Twitter - once you get past that, there's nothing there.

I would be way more apprehensive with Bernie Sanders as president or a Democratic party where AOC-types are in charge. That kind of leaderships would have a far greater effect on day to day life.

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#46

Post by ModernMech »

haolez wrote: post #37
martythemaniak wrote: post #10

One thing that I find interesting is how none of the great dystopian works of the 20th century featured celebrities as the ruling class. The antagonists are like Bond villains, smart, sophisticated, rational, cruel. A worthy adversary you could respect and feel good about struggling against. Our reality is that we've made our lives so advanced and comfortable, that our fantasies can try to become our reality. I guess…

I’ve noticed that he villains are almost always corporations, or backed by corporations in a way or another.

But they are always obviously evil corporations. They never have a hip logo with cute aesthetics, and a sneaker clad hoodie wearing slacker founder. The movie Next Gen on Netflix is a good example of this though. The evil corp in that movie is basically Apple.

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#47

Post by MereInterest »

prepend wrote: post #26
grey-area wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Trump family are not likely criminals, they are criminals, guilty of perjury before congress (Jared), violation of the emoluments clause (Trump), intimidating witnesses (Trump), interfering with the AG (Trump), collusion with the Saudis (Jared), bribery (Trump), adultery (Trump), assault (Trump on his 1st wife). The only thing which is not out in the open (though highly likely to be at some point) is collusion wi…

I think a qualification really helps here. By definition, criminal requires a guilty verdict. So while it can be productive to state opinion that someone may be guilty of criminal acts. The key part is a trial and conviction, before pronouncing someone guilty. Using precise language makes it less likely to be spun around and arguing with others who disagree, I think.

I'm not sure if that qualification adds a useful distinction. The usual definition I hear is "a person who committed a crime". Suppose I were to come home and find that my door has been broken down and my home ransacked, I would be justified in saying that "a criminal did this". There was an act of crime, and therefore it was done by a criminal. That it is ambiguous who the criminal was and whether there is sufficient evidence to prove that they did it, it was still done by a criminal.

Furthermore, even if I accept that criminality requires a guilty verdict to be a valid descriptor, it is something that applies retroactively. Once the conviction is given, it is retroactively correct to have called them a criminal between the time that the crime was committed and the time that the conviction was given. In this view, describing somebody as "criminal" prior to a verdict is an expression of belief as to what the verdict should or will be.

In either case, it is not incorrect to refer to the actions of the Trump campaign as criminal, to use one specific example. We know (1) that it is illegal to receive foreign aid in a campaign, (2) that the Trump campaign openly requested foreign aid (campaign speech, 2016-07-26), and (3) that the Trump campaign were in active negotiation for foreign aid (self-released emails from Trump Jr, dated 2016-06-03). From these, I conclude that the Trump campaign has performed criminal acts.

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#48

Post by blueboo »

It's nicely written but I don't know how thoughtful it is.

> Big institutions, whose dominance once seemed eternal, are on the brink of collapse.

> The explosion of information has undermined and obsoleted the 20th-century organizational model. Big brands are losing market share. Big universities are going bankrupt. Big political parties are splintering and losing their control over the political narrative.

Isn't the exact opposite happening? The big universities are getting bigger, richer, more exclusive. In practice, Trump is probably less divisive of his party than Obama. Brands are consolidating (particularly in this media landscape that is supposed to be so dizzyingly dynamic and fractured!) . And sure, people identify less with retail or luxury hotel brands. But you know what brands they love? Apple. Netflix. That crazy new starter, "McDonald's". And data is making their strangle grip tighter, not looser.

Information wants to...empower those who have the money to leverage it.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose...I'm afraid this is a lot of words about Those Dang Kids Today

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