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‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

stanforddaily.com

41–50 of 238 posts

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#41
post #2

Meanwhile in China we have 9-9-6. The US needs to wake up to whether it wants to stay in the game.

Not a single thing about China is attractive to me. Not how you work, not your politics, not your view of what's important in life. We have nothing to learn from you and I hope we don't become more similar than we are now.

If there's one thing living and working in Europe (Germany) has taught me is that all countries are more or less the same. It's just how well the culture manages to mask the "unattractive" traits we love to criticize in places like China (or America, as of late), and the PR/propaganda campaign they run to convince everyone they're the best place on the planet.

China is a prime example of subpar image/PR management. They really gotta take a hint and learn from the Germans, who are well respected and have lots of positive stereotypes parroted around the internet "work-life balance, efficiency, timeliness, high standards of living, LE FREE HEALTHCARE!!!"

IMO Germany is worse than America (the country they love to poo-poo on) and even China in so many respects. Yet America and China are the places people call "third world" nowadays.

- Trains are constantly late.

- Majority of offices don't have airconditioning or any air ventilation system (in fact, my previous workplace of 300 employees was in a building with NO insulation or fire alarm/suppression system!)

- Card payments are not accepted in at least 50% of places, particularly restaurants. Cash only in 2019 (can anyone say TAX EVASION?).

- People boast about contactless payments which just became mainstream last year like it's the second coming of sliced bread.

- Boasting about the public transportation system which is only the best if you're a student with a massive surplus of time/shortage of cash, otherwise it takes you anywhere from 10 mins to 1 hour (depending on time of day and route) more to get between two places compared to a car. Heaven forbid you have a family, then public transportation even costs more than having a car.

- Employers are extremely exploitative, especially in tech and especially startups - I'd say some places in America/Asia have better work-life and are less toxic than German companies. The only difference between America/China and Germany is the latter has employment laws that are actually enforced, but only if you go to court (but contrary to popular belief, don't make you "unfireable", just allow the employee to get a few thousand EUR as compensation for when the employer does try their hand at something exploitative - and they will, hoping you're not aware of your rights)

- Virtue signalling on all sorts of things. Not gonna get into politics/immigration, there's plenty on that elsewhere. But German companies love to boast about EQUALITY FOR ALL, DISCRIMINATION IS DISGUSTING. All while lowballing immigrants in terms of salary and imposing an industrial-grade glass ceiling for any non-German who tries to work here. E.g. they will boast how their company of 300 has over 80 nationalities and work exclusively in English (because 90% of clients are American/British) but oddly enough, everyone in mid-upper/upper management is white and German. Maybe throw in the occasional white non-German European or token Indian guy for DIVERSITY!!!111!!!!1

- Diesel, until recently, was the bragging point for efficiency. I remember not 5 years ago, there would be so many Europeans in comments sections of (any discussion remotely car/transportation related) poo-pooing on the "dumb Americans" for still using gasoline and polluting the environment by not getting "the bigger MPGs" using diesel. LOL.

- Free healthcare isn't actually free if you're not like the classic local European who still is a student with 0 work experience at age 30 shitposting on the internet. Look at the "KV" (health insurance) field of your payslip: I pay hundreds of EUR every MONTH as a healthy young person for "free healthcare". Out of sight, out of mind right?

TLDR China is about as attractive as any other country on the planet, they just have subpar image management and PR at the moment

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#42
post #38

The fact that there was a lot of work and pressure to do well makes me look back fondly at my university years. Going through something hard and coming out the other end is rewarding and much more fulfilling than if it had been a breeze.

It’s not either-or, though.

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#43
post #17

After 5 years of work, I finally decided to take the jump and live the dream of earning a Masters degree from a prestitious university in The Netherlands. Being a non-EU citizen I had shell euro 15000/year but it still seemed cheaper than US counterparts. Couple months into the semester I realized the pressure kicking in my program. The planned 40 hour load required atleast 80 hours of work. I could sense stress and…

[deleted]

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#44
post #2

Meanwhile in China we have 9-9-6. The US needs to wake up to whether it wants to stay in the game.

Not a single thing about China is attractive to me. Not how you work, not your politics, not your view of what's important in life. We have nothing to learn from you and I hope we don't become more similar than we are now.

> We have nothing to learn from you

I don't think you can use the word "we" to make your claim.

Regardless if you meant to speak for the Americans or people from some other country, you don't represent their opinion.

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a single thing about China is attractive to me. Not how you work, not your politics, not your view of what's important in life. We have nothing to learn from you and I hope we don't become more similar than we are now.

If there's one thing living and working in Europe (Germany) has taught me is that all countries are more or less the same. It's just how well the culture manages to mask the "unattractive" traits we love to criticize in places like China (or America, as of late), and the PR/propaganda campaign they run to convince everyone they're the best place on the planet. China is a prime example of subpar image/PR management. T…

Having lived in Germany for a bit I'm giggling at the truthiness of your post, but it doesn't mean that 'all countries are the same'.

Germany is different.

I think there are just different ups and downs.

FYI the worst part about German startups has to be the lack of big hits, with big exists, thereby making all the pain not really worth it. Startups are only worth it if there's a rational means to payout which I don't think exists frankly anywhere outside if the US.

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a single thing about China is attractive to me. Not how you work, not your politics, not your view of what's important in life. We have nothing to learn from you and I hope we don't become more similar than we are now.

If there's one thing living and working in Europe (Germany) has taught me is that all countries are more or less the same. It's just how well the culture manages to mask the "unattractive" traits we love to criticize in places like China (or America, as of late), and the PR/propaganda campaign they run to convince everyone they're the best place on the planet. China is a prime example of subpar image/PR management. T…

> TLDR China is about as attractive as any other country on the planet, they just have subpar image management and PR at the moment

Cool, why haven't you moved there?

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a single thing about China is attractive to me. Not how you work, not your politics, not your view of what's important in life. We have nothing to learn from you and I hope we don't become more similar than we are now.

If there's one thing living and working in Europe (Germany) has taught me is that all countries are more or less the same. It's just how well the culture manages to mask the "unattractive" traits we love to criticize in places like China (or America, as of late), and the PR/propaganda campaign they run to convince everyone they're the best place on the planet. China is a prime example of subpar image/PR management. T…

I am relieved you didn't speak of totalitarianism, which you have ruined your whole argument.

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#48
post #17

After 5 years of work, I finally decided to take the jump and live the dream of earning a Masters degree from a prestitious university in The Netherlands. Being a non-EU citizen I had shell euro 15000/year but it still seemed cheaper than US counterparts. Couple months into the semester I realized the pressure kicking in my program. The planned 40 hour load required atleast 80 hours of work. I could sense stress and…

In Europe, a Masters is not 'graduate' level. A masters (in Europe) is just a continuation of a bachelors, and someone graduating with just a bachelors is basically someone who's only half finished their education. Consequently, the work load is nowhere near as bad as it is at the PhD level (although even there, it's not that bad either).

Of course this very closely aligns the bachelors and masters level courses, meaning that if you haven't done the bachelors work, it's generally harder to make it in the masters, especially for hard sciences. Universities will take your money anyway of course, at best they'll give you a vague list of 'prerequisite courses' without detailing what level you're supposed to be at. So yeah, I can imagine you didn't have a great time given the circumstances, but that's at least partially to blame on faulty expectations, and it's also not what the OP is about.

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's one thing living and working in Europe (Germany) has taught me is that all countries are more or less the same. It's just how well the culture manages to mask the "unattractive" traits we love to criticize in places like China (or America, as of late), and the PR/propaganda campaign they run to convince everyone they're the best place on the planet. China is a prime example of subpar image/PR management. T…

Having lived in Germany for a bit I'm giggling at the truthiness of your post, but it doesn't mean that 'all countries are the same'. Germany is different. I think there are just different ups and downs. FYI the worst part about German startups has to be the lack of big hits, with big exists, thereby making all the pain not really worth it. Startups are only worth it if there's a rational means to payout which I don'…

> I think there are just different ups and downs.

Precisely my point but some countries and their people (or their PR team, depending how much tinfoil you're wearing) try to have you believe that it's nothing but upsides. E.g. The ample "Germany good and better, America bad and dumb" themed comments across the internet we've seen in the past decade.

Stupidly enough, I believed those comments back in the day, moved to Germany, only to find out I'd been fed a crap ton of lies.

Re: ‘A toxic culture of overwork’: The graduate student mental health crisis

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's one thing living and working in Europe (Germany) has taught me is that all countries are more or less the same. It's just how well the culture manages to mask the "unattractive" traits we love to criticize in places like China (or America, as of late), and the PR/propaganda campaign they run to convince everyone they're the best place on the planet. China is a prime example of subpar image/PR management. T…

> TLDR China is about as attractive as any other country on the planet, they just have subpar image management and PR at the moment Cool, why haven't you moved there?

I moved to Germany in the dark days when I was gullible to believe the propaganda across the internet that "Germany = The 1st world that's better than America" only to arrive and discover 99% of the stuff you see in comments sections about how "Germany is superior to [US/China/UK]" is bullshit.

That said, I made my bed and I'll lie in it for a while. Already looking at options for where to move, but I wasn't about to move my life here and ragequit after 1-2 years like most people do (the type of person that moves here seems to not care very much about the financial and stress cost of moving internationally, how ~1 year of work on their resume + 6 months jobless looks bad on their resume, etc)

Maybe not China, salaries and high-tech life there sound appealing but the firewalled internets is a big turn-off, but definitely not remaining in Germany now that I've done enough time.

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