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Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

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Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#41

Post by SoftwareMaven »

paulnelligan wrote: post #32

I always have a feeling that facebook is limiting entrepreneurs. You can't launch a social product today without making it facebook compliant and this means abiding by facebook's rules, and working within their structural limitations. These limitations they've imposed ensure that they keep their market share and prevent anyone else from really growing in the same space as them. But I don't think they can stay at the…

I know a guy who recently tried to build a social application, starting outside of Facebook. It was actually a very good idea and well implemented; unfortunately, the complete lack of connectivity to groups of people sealed its fate. By the time he got to integrating into Facebook Connect, he was almost out of money.

I think entrepreneurs wanting to build a social product are in better shape today because of Facebook and its built-in social network. But you are, of course, correct that building on somebody else's platform is always dangerous.

Lastly, "Open" is not really a feature to end-users. Diaspora will win if they can build compelling features that Facebook, as a result of its closed network, can't. Otherwise, I doubt highly it will be successful.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#42

Post by igrekel »

csytan wrote: post #38
keyist wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think that Berners-Lee and W3C get way too much credit for the web. And this is an incredibly arrogant statement by Mr. Berners-Lee. I also think that green is a totally awesome color, and that we can breed birds with horses to produce pegasii. For more attacks on the W3C at best tangential to Mr. Berners-Lee's actual essay, read on. > Facebook has in-fact done some serious web innovation the last years and W3C h…

I'm sure you've written better comments in the past, but countering his argument with sarcasm and no facts shows no class at all. This is exactly the kind of reply I don't want to see on HN.

I agree but I'll add that the parent comment wasn't very high either.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#43

Post by rapind »

dododo wrote: post #8

w3c should create open standards for social networks. i don't think these companies are going to do it, and this seems exactly what w3c is meant to do. so why not? seems more productive.

Well there's FOAF (RDF Ontology for Social Networking). You may want to use a proprietary backend to manage your data as a social networking provider, but the w3c schema already exists to share your graph.

Here's Tim's foaf data as an example: http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/card

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#44

Post by Tichy »

alecco wrote: post #10

The other day we went to an arts event/party. Most of the pictures are trapped inside Facebook. The artists couldn't comprehend why I didn't have "face" at all. This same crowd would've uploaded the pictures to Flickr only a couple of years ago. Staying out of Facebook isn't enough.

I loved the blog article the other day about the guy who had to create a Facebook account for his granny to see his pictures, then delete it again after a while. I think the same person mentioned going through their privacy settings in Facebook once per day. What pain point is FB solving that people willingly go through so much pain?

Are there no other photo sharing services out there?

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#45

Post by mseebach »

nhangen wrote: post #40
mseebach wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't think of anything else I really miss out on from Fb. I can't tell if you've left Facebook and feel these solutions replace it, or if you've just read the list of features, and decided you're covered. What you're missing: The aggregated, passive flow of opportunities to stay in touch. I occasionally have short conversations with people I haven't seen for a decade, prompted by something either I or they poste…

But who really needs "aggregated, passive flow of opportunities to stay in touch?" These are proxy relationships. Friends are welcome to call me, but I don't want to be involved in their lives 24/7, nor do I want the opportunity.

Well, if "do we really need this" was a viable yardstick for the value of innovation, nothing significant would have been invented in the past 100 years.

And telling me that the relationships I have on Facebook are worth less that not having them at all because they are on Facebook rather than on the phone(x) is incredibly arrogant and, well, none of your business.

(x) Never mind that they would have significant trouble reaching me using any of the 1998 contact information they have on me. Except for my name, which happens to be fairly unique, none of it is valid today, nor was it already by 2000.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#46

Post by igrekel »

DrJokepu wrote: post #9
shykes wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not missing out on the quality of the tools. You're missing out on connectivity. Some people can't be accessed without Facebook. The quantity of those people is growing.

Everyone has an e-mail address (it's a requirement to be able to create a Facebook account) and pretty much everyone is on one of the IM networks.

Tim doesn't look at just the present state but at the trend. Other posters have noted that many people abandon or don't see the use for IM or email when they use Facebook to communicate.

If people stop following their email or logging in to their IM because they communicate using Facebook, it could change quickly.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#47

Post by Tichy »

coliveira wrote: post #11

I don't know how FB can be a threat to the web if it can only exist because of the web. In a sense, friend data is just another kind of data. The same thing can be said, for example, of Gmail or hotmail. They host the email and contact information for millions of people.

There are already native Facebook apps for iPads and phones. So FB can exist without the web. Some people predict a Facebook phone in the future.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#48

Post by kragen »

dominiek wrote: post #13

I think that Berners-Lee and W3C get way too much credit for the web. And this is an incredibly arrogant statement by Mr. Berners-Lee. Facebook has in-fact done some serious web innovation the last years and W3C has completely dropped the ball. Facebook and Twitter have been catalyzing internet adoption and the general spread of information. Mr. Berners-Lee's obsession about content-silos shows that there is a seriou…

In between the sandstorms of irrelevant buzzwords, you did successfully make the case that Facebook is strong and getting stronger.

But we already knew that, so it's an easy case to make.

Tim's point is that Facebook is harmful and getting more harmful. That's entirely consistent with your point, despite the tone of disagreement that pervades your post.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#49

Post by jamesbritt »

swombat wrote: post #28
EliRivers wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got an idea. How about if you want a presence on the web, you have this website that you control with whatever data and pictures you want on it? Coders can develop things we'll call content management systems to make it a bit easier for you to put your data on there if you don't want to do it all yourself, and since you'll control it, you can add whatever tools and automation and widgets and the like.

I'll one up you on this. Maybe one particular group of coders can build a giant CMS that also has social networking features and allows everyone to have their page on the web, and keep up with what their friends are doing, without having to own, set up and administer their own servers (a prowess which most are incapable of). The hardest thing would be getting critical mass, but if someone could do it, wow, that would…

Sweet. We can call it Everyone On-line, or EOL.

We'll start first in the States, and call it AOL.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#50

Post by mseebach »

SimonPStevens wrote: post #16
mseebach wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't think of anything else I really miss out on from Fb. I can't tell if you've left Facebook and feel these solutions replace it, or if you've just read the list of features, and decided you're covered. What you're missing: The aggregated, passive flow of opportunities to stay in touch. I occasionally have short conversations with people I haven't seen for a decade, prompted by something either I or they poste…

> I can't tell if you've left Facebook and feel these solutions replace it, or if you've just read the list of features, and decided you're covered. I've got an Fb account, and I do use it lightly. I tend to have random conversations with people because of posts they make on twitter, or on their blogs. I do watch my Fb news feed on my phone, so if I spot something worth starting up a conversation about I have the opp…

That's fine (and not terribly different from how I use Facebook and other stuff, actually). But then your question becomes "What do I really miss out on for not using Facebook exclusively?" to which the answer is "Absolutely nothing. kthxbye."
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