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Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

nytimes.com

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Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#41

Post by DeonPenny »

thetechlead wrote: post #21
ddoolin wrote: post #2

> “The actual and intended effect of these prohibitions is to bar Huawei from significant segments of the U.S. market for telecommunications equipment and services, thereby inflicting immediate and ongoing economic, competitive, and reputational harms on Huawei,” the company’s lawyers wrote in the suit. This is incredulously ironic coming from a Chinese company. China, who sets up just about every barrier imaginable…

You are confusing Chinese companies with Chinese government. In most areas, whatever restrictions/laws on foreign businesses, are also put on Chinese companies (private). Most foreign companies lost Chinese market due to fierce competition from local counterparts, not any imaginable barrier. Back in 2000s, Chinese government even gave green light when Huawei tried to sell [ref] itself to Motorola, but only been turne…

China ecosystem isn't anymore competitive than anyone elses. You notice all the founders of these chinese tech companies are also in the CCP

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#42

Post by DeonPenny »

entity345 wrote: post #30
geezerjay wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are confusing Chinese companies with Chinese government. Is there any difference, really, specially if said company is a corporate arm of China's military?

Nortel once had a CEO that was a former US Navy Admiral. Was Nortel a corporate arm of the US military? Edit: I flagged your comment because it's fake news and because you downvote anyone who do not agree.

Is the navy the military of political party

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#43

Post by gsich »

ovi256 wrote: post #36
atoav wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual evidence of backdoors would be a start. There is a long list of state security enforced backdoors in american products. The list for Huawei is short. The US typically assumes the tactics itself uses must be used by anybody else. If you want us to choose between the Chinese and the Five Eyes spying on us, providing actual evidence for Chinese spying would be worth a lot for the side that has at least traces of…

>Actual evidence of backdoors There doesn't have to be a backdoor today. In the future, whenever they desire, the Chinese gov can ask Huawei for access and they will comply. That's the threat model.

Same applies for other countries, nobody seems to care there. With companies like Cisco you don't even need that, seeing that they have a backdoor released every other week.

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#44

Post by johnnyfaehell »

thisgoodlife wrote: post #25
geezerjay wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are confusing Chinese companies with Chinese government. Is there any difference, really, specially if said company is a corporate arm of China's military?

wait, what? Isn't Huawei a private company?

Why don't you understand the difference between appearances and reality? It's not a hard concept to understand. China is a dictatorship, a very successful and controlling one. You don't get to do much, without the Chinese government approving it. You do what they want when they want or else.

This is why all the really big companies are run by party members. Saying they're aren't in bed with each other and the government isn't in overall control is like claiming a 5-year-old is free to do whatever they want. While it may look like it, at any time the parent can intervene to prevent the child from doing something they don't want.

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#46

Post by atoav »

zaphirplane wrote: post #32
atoav wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly the five eyes couldn’t proof a single backdoor in Huawei products while the history of backdoors in US hardware is quite well documented. If the five eyes hadn’t shown time and time again, that they don’t give a damn about the laws and rights of other democratic nations, and quite definitly use “security” as a token for industrial spionage, I might show more support. But please show more than some fiction in wh…

The issue isn’t current back doors as you are trying to shift the conversation towards, it is about future Chinese government ordered back doors. I mean you’d have to be in a special dumb category to insert back doors today with all the coverage

If you are outside the Five Eyes, you are left with the choice between US products (with a documented history of spying also on democratic nations) and Chinese products, which potentially in the future could also be host for government backdoors.

This means the choice is only about who gets your trade secrets, with a bit more favour for huawei because they didn’t do it yet.

It is so easy from an US perspective to say “Take our product, we are the good ones” and conviniently ignoring that people tasked with building a infrastructure that isn’t beeing spied on have a hard time choosing here.

This would be easier if US products were actually trustworthy and there wasn’t a history of ignoring the rights of allied nations and court ordered backdoors. Why would I care if the backdoor was ordered by the chinese government or the US government? Both proofed they don’t really care about the rights of foreign citizen and both have aspirations to become or stay an empire.

The US damaged itself with it’s undemocratic spying practices and the final bill for it is not there yet. That beeing said I’d love to pay a bit more for a good product I can trust, but the US is not the place for such a product.

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#47

Post by atoav »

TobbenTM wrote: post #19
techie128 wrote: post #9

It is unbelievable that Huawei can do this in US and pretty much in any democratic country. The reverse is absolutely not true. The Chinese government has used every tool at its disposal to make life miserable for foreign competitors - see Google's exit, AWS, Apple, Uber and countless other companies were / are still being harassed. When was the last time a foreign company won a court case in China against its local…

So do you want us all to sink to their level, or actually be the democratic countries we pretend to be?

What would be the most american answer to this question?

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#48

Post by gonvaled »

plugger wrote: post #13
ddoolin wrote: post #2

> “The actual and intended effect of these prohibitions is to bar Huawei from significant segments of the U.S. market for telecommunications equipment and services, thereby inflicting immediate and ongoing economic, competitive, and reputational harms on Huawei,” the company’s lawyers wrote in the suit. This is incredulously ironic coming from a Chinese company. China, who sets up just about every barrier imaginable…

I also find Huawei's position quite rich given they built their product stack from stealing Nortel IP in the 2000s.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-18/us-complains-other-na...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06/we-were-pirates-too/amp...

https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2017/07/05/americas-industrial-re...

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/china-stealing-f...

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2013-02-01/piracy...

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#49

Post by dirtyid »

ovi256 wrote: post #34
dirtyid wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO Huawei's just seeking to rehabilitate their image, if the US refuses to publicly release evidence that contradicts the preponderance of sources that couldn't find back doors, then the entire US campaign against Huawei can be dismissed as a smear campaign. It's going to make US look dirty/petty and allows Huawei/China to save face. Huawei shares source code with GCHQ and US have already hacked into Huawei internal…

>have already hacked into Huawei internal emails and found nothing That means nothing, even if today the Chinese intelligence services take absolutely no interest in penetrating Huawei - which is laughable - that can change. If five years from now Huawei 5G equipment is used to build your countries 5G network, the Chinese gov uses their equivalent of a NSL and it's game over. Even if today's Huawei is clean. That's t…

Yes the obvious concern is potential risk. But the PR spin is angry Americans (and allies) screaming China bad with no (public) evidence of back doors and a preponderance of public reports from governments and private security researchers that Huawei is clean. That's the kind of irrational sentiment Huawei wants to cultivate - innocent until proven guilty. Any rational person can see it's absurd to have China build critical infrastructure in the US who has unique security concerns as a hegemon. But her allies and other nations, not so much. This spin might be all that's needed for to rationalise Huawei.

Personally, I just wouldn't be surprised if Huawei is actually operating cleanly on paper (in terms of back doors) out of pragmatism and foresight because confrontation with US security apparatus seems inevitable. Hence the lack of evidence from even private security researchers with no incentive to conceal. Huawei knows they're not getting into US. The PR is for 190 other countries, some of which might be five eye allies with how things are going.

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#50

Post by CalRobert »

TaylorGood wrote: post #5

Is it me or has Huawei only appeared in media the last few months? All my years of reading HN, etc. and no recollection until recent controvery. Feels like they’ve managed to stir many waters in record time. For a company founded in 1987, what gave?

I think they've been bigger in Europe. I have a 3g dongle I got in 2013 in Ireland that's from Huawei. Every single "mobile broadband modem" that the providers here give you is from Huawei, annoyingly.
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