I'm a regular college grad, but always liked working on my own car (and didn't always trust professional mechanics.) That lead me to consider becoming an auto mechanic at one time but after hearing some stories - and looking at the pay scales - I jumped back on my desk and rode off into the sunset. The stories - 1) Constant complaints by mgmt about productivity. 2) Grueling work schedules 3) Pressure to upsell additi…
The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College
41–50 of 247 posts
Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College
#42One thing that is always missing from these articles is the idea that it’s actually good for individuals (and for our society) to get an expansive view of human knowledge rather than a narrow training to turn you into a worker on a production line (or at a computer). Of course right now that’s a path that’s not accessible to many people, and people may have other financial reasons for going to trade schools, but I th…
I'm a successful college dropout, and I completely disagree. One of the strongest motivators for me leaving school after 1 year was the realization that virtually all of my classes gave me no more benefit than if I had just purchased the textbook and read it myself. As for every other classroom benefit, there are brilliant mentors all over the internet I can discuss what i'm learning with whenever I choose, without h…
You can have a very successful career without a college / university education, it is just easier to do the same with such an education.
It is almost impossible to get certain jobs at all without a university education. For example, try getting into a major investment bank in any kind of well paid position without a good university education or serious work experience - it is just not going to happen.
This is not a comment about trade schools - it should be a completely valid and respected career path, I am just saying that one should try getting a university degree if at all possible and makes sense for your type of career.
Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College
#43If students are coming out of 12 years of general education needing more general education, that is a failure of the public school system. We should fix that instead of pushing people into more school. After 12 years of general education, how do you justify more? In my opinion, we should be pushing specialized education at a younger age. When students exit high school, they should have skills that they can expand or…
A lot of the concepts you explore in university arts classes are things that a 12 year old just won't understand. Exploring subjects in a deep and meaningful way isn't possible until you've got your full adult toolkit of emotions and experience.
> In my opinion, we should be pushing specialized education at a younger age. When students exit high school, they should have skills that they can expand or fallback on. They can then use that fallback as a safety net to explore other options without extreme risk or debt.
How would you see that training going? I went to a rural school that had a graduating class of ~100, and there was little to no funding for extra courses - my choices of vocational training was comprised of "mechanics" or "woodworking".
Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College
#44I don't know why more tech companies don't do apprenticeships straight out of highschool. You can pay a high school student with some programming experience a fraction of the salary of a college graduate and it probably doesn't take that much longer to get them productive and they won't be saddled with student loan debt.
Poor return on investment given risks involved, you're better off offloading that cost of education/training to the individual and then just hiring them when they signal they are worthy of employment.
Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College
#45This makes defining the idea of a "trade" much more difficult. I think for the purposes of clarity, we should find some sort of line that distinguishes trade education from liberal education. I think the best way to do that - and this is obviously just my opinion - is to classify as a trade any work that doesn't directly question and debate theory or, put another way, any work that almost exclusively implements theory. So in this definition, you would obviously include the existing trades, but it would also include things we typically associate with college education like nursing, most software developer roles, therapists, architects, most engineers, etc.
I think the reason most of those roles are task-oriented (performing a function according to outlined requirements and expectations) but still trained at the college level is that they arose from more theory-oriented areas of study but never made the shift away from college when they entered mainstream, non-theoretical application. For instance, computer science was born from mathematics, but at this point, the average software developer doesn't need a PhD level of understanding in math to do their job at all. Nursing, similarly, was born from specialized forms of medicine, which was always a university-level field, but in recent years is shifting into 2-year programs and a more trade-like structure at the entry-level.
When you think about things this way, it suddenly makes the stigma against trade school seem silly. Most of us are doing trade work anyway. I write software, my friend wires buildings, my other friend does plumbing. We are all trade workers because we are ultimately just implementing theory, not discussing and questioning it.
This should also inform how we judge education. I have a couple college degrees, but I do not have what I would call a liberal education. I have not trained extensively in philosophy, law, theology, art, etc. My education is exclusively applied topics like finance and software. When I judge the quality of my own education experience, I am using different criteria than I would for someone that has training in English, history, or law. Their standard for "success" in the context of education is primarily defined by whether or not they take a role of social leadership and influence in their community (education, politics, writing, etc). Mine is different because I judge my success on whether or not I deliver a completed product in the context of my technology job.
Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College
#46One thing that is always missing from these articles is the idea that it’s actually good for individuals (and for our society) to get an expansive view of human knowledge rather than a narrow training to turn you into a worker on a production line (or at a computer). Of course right now that’s a path that’s not accessible to many people, and people may have other financial reasons for going to trade schools, but I th…
In fact exposing people to too broad set of ideas may lead to nihilism and a constrained education may be better for mental health.
Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College
#47I'm a regular college grad, but always liked working on my own car (and didn't always trust professional mechanics.) That lead me to consider becoming an auto mechanic at one time but after hearing some stories - and looking at the pay scales - I jumped back on my desk and rode off into the sunset. The stories - 1) Constant complaints by mgmt about productivity. 2) Grueling work schedules 3) Pressure to upsell additi…
Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College
#48One thing that is always missing from these articles is the idea that it’s actually good for individuals (and for our society) to get an expansive view of human knowledge rather than a narrow training to turn you into a worker on a production line (or at a computer). Of course right now that’s a path that’s not accessible to many people, and people may have other financial reasons for going to trade schools, but I th…
Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College
#49I'm a regular college grad, but always liked working on my own car (and didn't always trust professional mechanics.) That lead me to consider becoming an auto mechanic at one time but after hearing some stories - and looking at the pay scales - I jumped back on my desk and rode off into the sunset. The stories - 1) Constant complaints by mgmt about productivity. 2) Grueling work schedules 3) Pressure to upsell additi…
The biggest downside of being a car mechanic is that your back and knees will be shot after a couple of years. Ease of service and mechanic's comfort are not usually high on the list of desirable features.
Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
True this. I don't want to teach a high school graduate (or college grad) what interfaces and abstract classes are.. or basic good design of code. My job depends on making progress, not training. That said, my org supports up to 4 concurrent interns (typically we have 2-3 at any given point), and they could work for 4 months to 2+ years if they want, 15-40 hours/week -- adjustable for summers, etc... But they need to…
I've always found it challenging to give programming projets to someone who is only here for a few hours and days a week. Where with clerical tasks you can just have them get back to that pile of paper tomrorrow