Can I get $10k of tax break if i move to XX and hire my wife (and kids)?
On a serious note - taxes are too high and world is too mobile. More people and more corps will find a greener pastries easy way or hard way.
Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota
41–50 of 128 posts
Re: Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota
#42I'm a little confused here; 15MM over 20 years doesn't sound like a huge amount of money, and if the data center is being built on the grounds of a coal power facility that is being decommissioned, it's not clear how Sherburne County was going to see that money anyways. Becker is a very small town 45 minutes away from MSP; what negotiating leverage do they have? Even with the tax package, how is this a net negative f…
I think the negative reaction has something to do with the ROI for the tax money forgone?
From the article:
> After construction wraps, with 18 remaining years of tax abatement, there will be a $270,000 tax shortfall for every full-time position created.
It's not as bad as Wisconsin's Foxconn cluster-F, but for a rural area, 15k a year per person is not peanuts. Difficult to make that up someplace else.
(Well, not "difficult" from a technical perspective, you can just raise taxes on people in the rest of the state. But politically speaking, what if the people in the rest of the state figure out what you're up to? That's what happened in Wisconsin.)
Re: Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
@kartan, there is a lot of valid reasons to give an incentive such as a tax break to a large company, I will list a few: 1. Brand name corporation in your community, leading to new businesses propping up 2. Increase land-value in the area, leading to higher city taxes 3. Income, corporate and other taxes associated with the company's project & continuous operation 4. Long-term certainty. Most companies wont build a d…
1. There are already dozens of datacenters in Minnesota. They aren't prompting other businesses to pop up because they are self-contained and self-serving. Furthermore there is no "brand recognition" they are giant unmarked warehouses that could be a datacenter or could just be another nameless storage facility. 2. Why would a datacenter increase land value? This isn't a corporate headquarters, it's a datacenter. 3.…
I will bite your response with the hopes you try to keep an open mind to the response you get instead of a preconceived notion of how things work.
1. Data centers are a symbol to a much larger economic schema that impacts quality of service to the area, economic prosperity, among other areas. Minnesota can literally come to prospect business and say "Look, Google, X, Y and Z companies gave us a seal of approval that our state is tech driven, come join them in the future of technology in America" You would be surprised how 1 transaction with a big brand can help future business opportunities.
2. One data center alone does not increase land value, the combination of all the variables I list ++++ do.
3. Every employee that is paid is taxed, every equipment they purchase is taxed, every goods or services they need is taxed, land is taxed. Taxation is not just what income tax and corporate tax.
4. You shouldn't be comparing a data center to a headquarter, they are two distinct parts of a business and the economy. You will have 20 people + the contractors needed from time to time + folks that need to fly to the data center 70% of their time + other marketing, sales jobs to sell the data center services to the state economy. Is it on the same degree as a headquarter? Never, nor should it be seeing as such
5. You could divide the number of jobs by 30 and you could still break-even as a city/state without accounting for the other benefits I list (and the ones I didn't). You are also forgetting that there are other costs associated with the job that are not construction work and even within construction work, there are specialists that make more money. Always remember, just because your paycheck says you make $15 an hour, it doesn't mean that your cost is a lot higher.
6. Refer to the other points and try to think of the ones I didn't list (improved disaster readiness in the region, energy consumption cost and taxes/jobs associated with it, promises to set-up green initiatives, etc)
I hope this has helped you see a different side of the equation.
Re: Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota
#44I'm a little confused here; 15MM over 20 years doesn't sound like a huge amount of money, and if the data center is being built on the grounds of a coal power facility that is being decommissioned, it's not clear how Sherburne County was going to see that money anyways. Becker is a very small town 45 minutes away from MSP; what negotiating leverage do they have? Even with the tax package, how is this a net negative f…
I think the negative reaction has something to do with the ROI for the tax money forgone? From the article: > After construction wraps, with 18 remaining years of tax abatement, there will be a $270,000 tax shortfall for every full-time position created. It's not as bad as Wisconsin's Foxconn cluster-F, but for a rural area, 15k a year per person is not peanuts. Difficult to make that up someplace else. (Well, not "d…
Thanks! I feel like I'm still not understanding. The tax breaks Google is asking for are city and county property taxes. If Google doesn't move in, the county isn't getting that money anyways. What's the "shortfall" here?
Re: Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota
#45From the linked MPR article ( https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/02/25/wind-energy-tax-bre... ) > A Google data center often attracts other major technology-based companies to invest in the same area, Bertram said. I'm confused why this would be. What economic benefit would proximity to a Google data center bring, besides lower latency to some of Google's services? I can't imagine 15ms lower latency to a Google servi…
We can take a look at The Dalles or Boardman, OR to see what effect data centers have had on the local economy. There are a few very large data centers there built by GCP and AWS respectively.
My guess on the economic effects? Not much.
Re: Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota
#46Money must be tight at Google
Those $100M yachts and Montana ranches aren't going to buy themselves.
Re: Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
==And it is a zero-sum game where another town loses the possibility for you to gain it. It is hardly a justifiable situation.== This is the most critical piece. What would legislation to address this at the national level even look like?
The only way seems to be to either to completely outlaw these negotiations, or create a standard rate (i.e. if the project will bring 100 jobs, the cities have the option but not the obligation to offer $10m in various forms of tax breaks— or maybe capped at $10m). The trouble is that, at a higher level, this unwillingness to play ball may just result in the companies fleeing to other countries rather than other stat…
You can't outlaw them without modifying the US Constitution due to the 10th Amendment as it concerns states rights. Individual states could outlaw it, but they would just be putting themselves at a disadvantage relative to other states that did not.
Re: Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota
#48From the linked MPR article ( https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/02/25/wind-energy-tax-bre... ) > A Google data center often attracts other major technology-based companies to invest in the same area, Bertram said. I'm confused why this would be. What economic benefit would proximity to a Google data center bring, besides lower latency to some of Google's services? I can't imagine 15ms lower latency to a Google servi…
It could be something like impressions of the overall quality of infrastructure. Is Google going to put a data center where Internet speeds look like 90's dialup?
Re: Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota
#49> Google is promising to bring 50 full-time positions to the area. The company also projects that it will create 2,300 jobs during the 18–24 month construction window. Is this a joke? > State Sen. Andrew Mathews (R–Milaca) and state Rep. Shane Mekeland (R–Clear Lake) recently introduced a bill to provide an additional $20.1 million in state bonds to give the Becker Business Park—where the data center would be built—a…
This is in general a good thing if all companies can negotiate such deals. This leads to different administrative areas competing for different kid of projects and also lower the tax rate. All this results into more efficient government.
Note that 15M means very little for Google any ways.But those jobs can have massive impact on the local economy creating millions more for the locals and as well as state.
Re: Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota
#50> Google is promising to bring 50 full-time positions to the area. The company also projects that it will create 2,300 jobs during the 18–24 month construction window. Is this a joke? > State Sen. Andrew Mathews (R–Milaca) and state Rep. Shane Mekeland (R–Clear Lake) recently introduced a bill to provide an additional $20.1 million in state bonds to give the Becker Business Park—where the data center would be built—a…
@kartan, there is a lot of valid reasons to give an incentive such as a tax break to a large company, I will list a few: 1. Brand name corporation in your community, leading to new businesses propping up 2. Increase land-value in the area, leading to higher city taxes 3. Income, corporate and other taxes associated with the company's project & continuous operation 4. Long-term certainty. Most companies wont build a d…
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