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Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

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Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#41

Post by antr »

lbfkbsjcn73 wrote: post #35
antr wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rampant privatization? Spain's public healthcare expenditure[1] was: 38.552 €bn in 2002, and 66.678 €bn in 2016 (latest official year), this is a 73% increase in 14 years. On other hand while population was 41.31 m in 2002, and 46.48 m in 2016, A 13% increase. This is a 53% net increase in expenditure per capita. I'm curious to know what "rampant privatization" to you means, as government/public expenditure has by no…

Out of interest i did a very rough calculation of what inflation-adjusted numbers might look like. I pulled 4% per year inflation out of my ear, and came up with: 38.552 €bn * 1.04^(2016-2002) => 66.76 €bn ..which is uncannily close to your numbers. Inflation probably wasn't exactly 4% YoY, but if it is, then in real Euros, the expenditure per population has decreased .

Please be a bit more serious, change rate between 2002-2016 is closer to 30%. If you want to make up numbers and conclusions be my guest. I'm not here to play Trump-mathematics

Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#42

Post by dragonwriter »

lettergram wrote: post #27

There’s something wrong with the methodology here when Cuba is ranked higher than the US. People are starving in Cuba, with no health care...

> There’s something wrong with the methodology here when Cuba is ranked higher than the US. People are starving in Cuba, with no health care...

[Citation needed]

Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#43

Post by antr »

dagw wrote: post #34
antr wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. the numbers are government healthcare expenditure, not private healthcare expenditure 2. CPI won't change a the bottom line take-away. Feel free to run the numbers.

1. the numbers are government healthcare expenditure, not private healthcare expenditure Sure, but what percentage of that government expenditure is going to private health care providers? And how has that number changed over time?

Please refer to the url provided, it's there for a reason

Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#44

Post by andrenth »

lbfkbsjcn73 wrote: post #35
antr wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rampant privatization? Spain's public healthcare expenditure[1] was: 38.552 €bn in 2002, and 66.678 €bn in 2016 (latest official year), this is a 73% increase in 14 years. On other hand while population was 41.31 m in 2002, and 46.48 m in 2016, A 13% increase. This is a 53% net increase in expenditure per capita. I'm curious to know what "rampant privatization" to you means, as government/public expenditure has by no…

Out of interest i did a very rough calculation of what inflation-adjusted numbers might look like. I pulled 4% per year inflation out of my ear, and came up with: 38.552 €bn * 1.04^(2016-2002) => 66.76 €bn ..which is uncannily close to your numbers. Inflation probably wasn't exactly 4% YoY, but if it is, then in real Euros, the expenditure per population has decreased .

The average inflation was closer to 2% according to https://www.inflation.eu/inflation-rates/spain/historic-infl...

Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#45

Post by lettergram »

dragonwriter wrote: post #42
lettergram wrote: post #27

There’s something wrong with the methodology here when Cuba is ranked higher than the US. People are starving in Cuba, with no health care...

> There’s something wrong with the methodology here when Cuba is ranked higher than the US. People are starving in Cuba, with no health care... [Citation needed]

Below are two, also when visiting it is very clear:

1994 - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/millions-of-cubans-...

2012 - https://www.poverties.org/blog/poverty-in-cuba

Apparently, it has improved since then - but that’s because international aid was sent, aka food.

Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#46

Post by dagw »

antr wrote: post #43
dagw wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. the numbers are government healthcare expenditure, not private healthcare expenditure Sure, but what percentage of that government expenditure is going to private health care providers? And how has that number changed over time?

Please refer to the url provided, it's there for a reason

I tried, but as someone not familiar with the intricacies of the Spanish health care system (or the Spanish language for that matter) the numbers are tricky to parse out.

Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#48

Post by RobertoG »

lettergram wrote: post #39
lultimouomo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume the problem is with the methodology of the study? Cuba has a longer life expectancy than US. As a European, I'd say there's something wrong with US approach to health: people living under a dictatorship in a poor country have better health than Americans.

I’d love to see real stats on that. All I ever see is the statement that there’s this huge problem in the US. Yet, when I travel I see tons of people without teeth, starving in the street, etc. It’s anecdotal, but I cannot imagine these countries are equivalent. I’ve even seen the claim healthcare is super good outside the United stares. Although it costs more, the US had a top notch system for medical care. They can…

Maybe the Cubans and the Spaniards have some magic genes on them, but I think is more probably that you vision of those countries is distorted.

Personally, and this is my intuition talking, I think that the most important fact is primary care.

If you need open heart surgery you probably would be better (marginally) in the States than Cube (assuming you can afford it), but what really makes a difference is to get diagnosed in the early states of a illness or, for old people, constant follow up by a doctor.

Interesting, it seems that both Italy and Spain have primary care totally public, that means, the doctors work for the National Health System. It would be interesting to check if this the case for the other top countries in the list.

Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#49

Post by lucideer »

antr wrote: post #19
manuelflara wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, the public healthcare system in Spain, while still great compared to most of the world, is a shadow of what it once was, with the rampant privatization done by the Government in the last decade. A really sad situation. That being said, decent private healthcare here is about 100€/month, so while private healthcare is still considered "a luxury" (because public one is pretty good), it's still very very far fro…

Rampant privatization? Spain's public healthcare expenditure[1] was: 38.552 €bn in 2002, and 66.678 €bn in 2016 (latest official year), this is a 73% increase in 14 years. On other hand while population was 41.31 m in 2002, and 46.48 m in 2016, A 13% increase. This is a 53% net increase in expenditure per capita. I'm curious to know what "rampant privatization" to you means, as government/public expenditure has by no…

Privatisation has nothing to do with reduction in government expenditure on healthcare: it's merely about where that expenditure goes.

As far as I've seen, privatisation seems to normally lead to increases in government expenditure: the US has the highest per capita federal health budgets in the world (and Switzerland, in second place, is far behind)

Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#50

Post by matt4077 »

lettergram wrote: post #27

There’s something wrong with the methodology here when Cuba is ranked higher than the US. People are starving in Cuba, with no health care...

The power of preconceptions...

I once worked with someone doing stats for a UN program. They used to say that the two most reliable statistics, in any country, are life expectancy and the murder rate. Because it’s quite hard to systematically hide murders or change the age in death certificates. In the Western Hemisphere, you can get a pretty good estimate just by taking a stroll of any cemetery.

Having been to Cuba, I can also assure you that despite all its shortcomings, starvation just isn’t a thing. Unless you’re allergic to rice and/or chicken. I even got to experience the health system (yeay climbing). And while „bare bones“ was the motto of the day, all the essential parts seemed to be working quite well.

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