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Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

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Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#41

Post by tarr11 »

Is personal information really a kind of property, that can be stolen? If it is, aren’t we doing this all the time, any time we perceive anything about anyone?

How is this different than taking a picture of someone? The image is owned by the photographer, not the subject(s) according to current laws.

if I meet someone on the street, and record their name, the conversation we had, and the location where I met them, and their phone number, have I “taken their data”?

Do they have the right to demand that I not record that information?

Does my perspective or interpretation of that information give me some ownership to that data?

What if I use that information for commercial gain? Is that what makes this illegal?

Or is it only if I do this at a scale beyond which humans are not capable, and store it digitally, is that what makes this illegal?

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#42

Post by pm90 »

currymj wrote: post #21
Cyclone_ wrote: post #14

What if a data breach happens due to an 0 day exploit with a 3rd party library? Do people from the company where the data breach happened still go to jail then?

as far as I can tell, this bill would only allow jail time if there was a serious breach, at a large company, and higher-ups left it out of an official report they would be required to make to the government. in other words, all they have to do is fulfill their obligation disclose that they were hit by this 0-day, in order to at least be protected from jail time.

Which seems like a reasonable policy IMO. Its encouraging companies to be forthcoming with their data breaches .... or else.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#43

Post by crooked-v »

maxxxxx wrote: post #10
crooked-v wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Let the invisible hand of the market fix it" is not something that has a history of actually working on near-monopoly actors.

How do you even know who does bad stuff?

Well, see, you just have to thoroughly investigate holding companies, paywalled court filings, online security breach notices, and legal documentation conveniently available on the other side of the country in a locked filing cabinet in the unlit second subbasement, and do it every time you buy groceries, pay for gas, receive a shipped gift, or spend time in the vicinity of anyone who takes photos with the Facebook app. I don't see what makes it so difficult.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#44

Post by fzeroracer »

mimixco wrote: post #4

Quit expecting governments to save you. The easiest fix for this problem is to stop using these products! No matter how much bad news comes out about Facebook, Apple, Google, and Amazon using your data in bad ways -- people still keep using them. If enough people quit, this will stop or a competitor will rise up who doesn't do this stuff.

Facebook collects data on people that never even use or touch or go near facebook. How exactly do you stop using their product?

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#45

Post by sonnyblarney »

srkmno wrote: post #26

Pitchfork mobs dictating policy, that is why you don't elect an ex state attorney general to the legislative branch: prosecution and grandstanding is all they know. Also the principle concept of "stealing your data" is more ludicrous than "stealing" in the copyright sense; that data is meta data and it's not yours, it was generated by machines you don't own and have no claim over.

"it was generated by machines"

No it wasn't.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#46

Post by crooked-v »

vjeux wrote: post #3

“Oops, we didn’t notice, but it’s another to be a company like Facebook that takes your private messages and sells that data. It takes your address, it takes your interest, it takes your browsing history and sells that to people without your permission Wydens.” Does anyone know what context he refers to? I wasn’t aware that Facebook ever directly sold private messages. Same for address, interest...

They don't sell your private messages. What they actually do is just give them away to business partners.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/technology/facebook-priva...

> Facebook allowed Microsoft’s Bing search engine to see the names of virtually all Facebook users’ friends without consent, the records show, and gave Netflix and Spotify the ability to read Facebook users’ private messages.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#47

Post by sonnyblarney »

mimixco wrote: post #4

Quit expecting governments to save you. The easiest fix for this problem is to stop using these products! No matter how much bad news comes out about Facebook, Apple, Google, and Amazon using your data in bad ways -- people still keep using them. If enough people quit, this will stop or a competitor will rise up who doesn't do this stuff.

"Quit expecting governments to save you. The easiest fix for this problem is to stop using these products! "

No, this is why we have regulations for cars, food, and everything else.

Free markets don't work well in most of these areas because information can't flow properly. If it did, markets might work quite well.

But they don't, and players cheat, so we need regulations.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#48

Post by fzeroracer »

srkmno wrote: post #26

Pitchfork mobs dictating policy, that is why you don't elect an ex state attorney general to the legislative branch: prosecution and grandstanding is all they know. Also the principle concept of "stealing your data" is more ludicrous than "stealing" in the copyright sense; that data is meta data and it's not yours, it was generated by machines you don't own and have no claim over.

Let's say someone really hates Facebook. What exactly is their recourse for them to say 'I don't want you to keep a shadow profile and I don't want you to sell or use that in any way shape for form'.

In that case, they're directly monetizing data about me as a person.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#49

Post by coldtea »

tarr11 wrote: post #41

Is personal information really a kind of property, that can be stolen? If it is, aren’t we doing this all the time, any time we perceive anything about anyone? How is this different than taking a picture of someone? The image is owned by the photographer, not the subject(s) according to current laws. if I meet someone on the street, and record their name, the conversation we had, and the location where I met them, an…

>Is personal information really a kind of property, that can be stolen? If it is, aren’t we doing this all the time, any time we perceive anything about anyone?

We are flexible and smarter than Vulcans. Something doesn't have to be necessarily expressible into a single, unambiguous universal formula to be made illegal.

We can e.g. allow people to perceive things about other people in their brains (or even notebooks) as we've done for millennia, but not allow them to compile them into large aggregated digital databases of thousands or millions of people without their consent, or give them to advertisers.

>How is this different than taking a picture of someone? The image is owned by the photographer, not the subject(s) according to current laws.

Depending on the jurisdiction, taking an image of someone can be illegal. Sometimes, even if it's a public space. And using an image of someone to advertise stuff without their consent is illegal, including in public space.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#50

Post by desc »

The problem, as always, is externalisation of costs.

If they don't pay for the consequences of the risks they take (such as prioritising profits over security, etc) market forces demand that they take those risks.

People talk about the market fixing things, but that only works if it's not possible to externalise costs.

Unfortunately, the only practical way to enforce that is through government regulation.

The government is also a system which seeks to externalise costs...

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