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Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

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Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#41

Post by dopamean »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #4

I find this part interesting: > Wang says: “Chinese [people] have risked death to eat pufferfish for a long time. The government couldn’t inspect every household to implement the pufferfish ban. So it opened up the industry by legalising it.” > Duan says that, thanks to the legalisation, and to the number of fisheries experts graduating from the Ocean University of China and Dalian Ocean University, “pufferfish dinin…

China could learn something from China on this. See their draconian punishments for drug offenses.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#42

Post by supernova87a »

supernova87a wrote: post #40

Although in principle, this kind of making meat safer is useful -- it probably ends up being used to make standards + preparation more lax and doable by unskilled people. (in this case, so more people in China for example can access the exotic fish) This happened with the USDA + US beef industry, they wanted to be able to "cold sterilize" (irradiate) beef to eliminate E. coli. In principle why not, but there was also…

Also, consider the risk/reward -- You're counting on a lot of things to go right in this new process, in order for it to not poison people. Cost of policing the new breeding process, inspections, industry regulation.

For what benefit? Some more people get to taste an expensive bland fish that isn't going to be feeding millions? I don't believe fugu can be raised in captivity at scale.

Why bother?

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#43

Post by dear »

pwaai wrote: post #39
throwaway2016a wrote: post #4

I find this part interesting: > Wang says: “Chinese [people] have risked death to eat pufferfish for a long time. The government couldn’t inspect every household to implement the pufferfish ban. So it opened up the industry by legalising it.” > Duan says that, thanks to the legalisation, and to the number of fisheries experts graduating from the Ocean University of China and Dalian Ocean University, “pufferfish dinin…

> So something is dangerous and people are going to do it anyway so they legalize it and try to make it safer instead of criminalizing it. The US could learn from China on this one. No there's nothing to be learned here because the US is a very different system. It consists of strong independent state level enforcement entities, it's a collection of individual states, each with an economy of the top 50 economies of t…

Just so you know - that "throwaway" account has a longer history here than your named anonymous account and has a lot of higher "karmas" than you. Just need to point out.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#44

Post by Sharlin »

ginko wrote: post #2

It was always my understanding that the appeal of well-prepared pufferfish was that it would still contain minute amounts of toxin to create a prickly/numbing feeling in the mouth.

It was always my understanding that eating pufferfish is pretty much 100% a status thing. Earning bragging rights by either having taken the risk, or having dined in a place exclusive enough to have a very distinguished chef preparing the fish. Or, of course, being able to offer one's guests a plate prepared by such a distinguished chef.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#45

Post by moosey »

gamblor956 wrote: post #15
throwaway2016a wrote: post #4

I find this part interesting: > Wang says: “Chinese [people] have risked death to eat pufferfish for a long time. The government couldn’t inspect every household to implement the pufferfish ban. So it opened up the industry by legalising it.” > Duan says that, thanks to the legalisation, and to the number of fisheries experts graduating from the Ocean University of China and Dalian Ocean University, “pufferfish dinin…

So something is dangerous and people are going to do it anyway so they legalize it and try to make it safer instead of criminalizing it. The US could learn from China on this one. Pufferfish has been legal in the US for decades at least, there is a classic Simpons episode in which Homer consumes one. If you meant to comment on drug policy: many drugs are illegal not because of the harm they cause to the user but beca…

> many drugs are illegal not because of the harm they cause to the user but because of the harm the user causes to others, and it's not feasible to make a "safer" dose because the nature of these drugs encourages addicts to use larger or stronger doses over time.

I'm interested in how making them illegal abates this? It seems like a non-sequitur to me. Further, even after making many natural drugs in categories that did this, we legalized tons of opioids made by US manufacturers, so that doesn't even follow with the actual law in the US.

Further, using alcohol regularly has a similar effect, and I'll bet you it's far more dangerous over time.

I will suggest instead that drugs are illegal for two reasons: Moralization, which is basically randomness applied to ethics; and because it allows our justice system to pick and choose who to imprison.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#46

Post by imtringued »

gamblor956 wrote: post #15
throwaway2016a wrote: post #4

I find this part interesting: > Wang says: “Chinese [people] have risked death to eat pufferfish for a long time. The government couldn’t inspect every household to implement the pufferfish ban. So it opened up the industry by legalising it.” > Duan says that, thanks to the legalisation, and to the number of fisheries experts graduating from the Ocean University of China and Dalian Ocean University, “pufferfish dinin…

So something is dangerous and people are going to do it anyway so they legalize it and try to make it safer instead of criminalizing it. The US could learn from China on this one. Pufferfish has been legal in the US for decades at least, there is a classic Simpons episode in which Homer consumes one. If you meant to comment on drug policy: many drugs are illegal not because of the harm they cause to the user but beca…

The biggest harm those drugs cause is to the wallet of the user, to the point that a lot decide to become dealers (or sex workers) themselves so that they can cut the drug with brick dust and USE the clean share for themselves, which causes major health issues (e.g. abscesses at the injection point) downstream that are then attributed to the drug rather than the additives.

If those "drug addicts" have access to cheap, uncontaminated drugs and the dosage is controlled by their doctors then all of the problems that are commonly associated with "hard" drug use disappear.

However most people get jealous of those "cured" people who live a normal life but still have their doctor treat them with the drug that made them addicted in the first place. Usually it's along these lines: "What?? My tax money is used so someone else can stay addicted?" When the clinic was shutdown around 70 people became homeless because they cannot afford street drugs and 6 died from overdoses. Of course the reaction was something like "If after decades of treatment people are still addicted, then maybe the clinic wasn't so successful after all."

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#47

Post by ngokevin »

pwaai wrote: post #39
throwaway2016a wrote: post #4

I find this part interesting: > Wang says: “Chinese [people] have risked death to eat pufferfish for a long time. The government couldn’t inspect every household to implement the pufferfish ban. So it opened up the industry by legalising it.” > Duan says that, thanks to the legalisation, and to the number of fisheries experts graduating from the Ocean University of China and Dalian Ocean University, “pufferfish dinin…

> So something is dangerous and people are going to do it anyway so they legalize it and try to make it safer instead of criminalizing it. The US could learn from China on this one. No there's nothing to be learned here because the US is a very different system. It consists of strong independent state level enforcement entities, it's a collection of individual states, each with an economy of the top 50 economies of t…

Any post supporting or defending China in any way is definitely an exception. I'm surprised to see any "China #1" posts anywhere. Anti-China sentiments are universal on HN and Reddit if you search any thread mentioning China.

I wouldn't say though that life is below UN standards for the average city citizen. I'd still count it a first-world country purely on lifestyle.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#48

Post by MRD85 »

imtringued wrote: post #46
gamblor956 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So something is dangerous and people are going to do it anyway so they legalize it and try to make it safer instead of criminalizing it. The US could learn from China on this one. Pufferfish has been legal in the US for decades at least, there is a classic Simpons episode in which Homer consumes one. If you meant to comment on drug policy: many drugs are illegal not because of the harm they cause to the user but beca…

The biggest harm those drugs cause is to the wallet of the user, to the point that a lot decide to become dealers (or sex workers) themselves so that they can cut the drug with brick dust and USE the clean share for themselves, which causes major health issues (e.g. abscesses at the injection point) downstream that are then attributed to the drug rather than the additives. If those "drug addicts" have access to cheap…

Have you ever spent time with long term meth/ice/coke/crack users? The problems don't disappear if you give someone clean drugs. These drugs are simply nasty.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#49

Post by threwawasy1228 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #15
throwaway2016a wrote: post #4

I find this part interesting: > Wang says: “Chinese [people] have risked death to eat pufferfish for a long time. The government couldn’t inspect every household to implement the pufferfish ban. So it opened up the industry by legalising it.” > Duan says that, thanks to the legalisation, and to the number of fisheries experts graduating from the Ocean University of China and Dalian Ocean University, “pufferfish dinin…

So something is dangerous and people are going to do it anyway so they legalize it and try to make it safer instead of criminalizing it. The US could learn from China on this one. Pufferfish has been legal in the US for decades at least, there is a classic Simpons episode in which Homer consumes one. If you meant to comment on drug policy: many drugs are illegal not because of the harm they cause to the user but beca…

I would think that making them illegal probably increases the harm these users cause other people. Say a drug addict is using something very potent and illegal, a large aspect of their life revolves around a criminal act, using, purchasing, and carrying the drug they crave.

Wouldn't their logic then be, "I'm already committing potentially felony level crimes each day, so what difference does robbing someone make? Just another crime to my list of crimes." By othering them through making their daily routines a crime, I would argue that it encourages them to branch out into other crimes.

Contrast this image with the working addicts you often see in other countries with decriminalization. They often are able to function in society as a normal person, go to work, run a household, and they might use at the end of the day as maintenance for their addiction or might use a small dose in their car on their lunch break or whatever. Not arguing that this is good for the drug user, but at the very least their entire life isn't in a complete shambles due to being labelled a dangerous criminal.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#50

Post by Pharmakon »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #4

I find this part interesting: > Wang says: “Chinese [people] have risked death to eat pufferfish for a long time. The government couldn’t inspect every household to implement the pufferfish ban. So it opened up the industry by legalising it.” > Duan says that, thanks to the legalisation, and to the number of fisheries experts graduating from the Ocean University of China and Dalian Ocean University, “pufferfish dinin…

China is no role model in that respect; look at their attempt to incite an international ban on ketamine! They only have led down when the WHO and other countries told them to fuck off, because ketamine is a critically important drug in developing contexts. Ketamine is the only general anesthetic you don’t have to worry about respiratory depression with, and one of the few with no risk of malignant hyperthermia. Still, China has a massive problem with extreme ketamine abuse, so they want it banned worldwide.

Haunting, but good read: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-33472971/inside...

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