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Facebook's data gathering hit by German anti-trust clampdown

reuters.com

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Re: Facebook's data gathering hit by German anti-trust clampdown

#41

Post by RestlessMind »

rsj_hn wrote: post #39
jasonvorhe wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want to use ad-supported services without feeding the ad-system that keeps the services running? Why do think you have a right to use Google Maps without supporting the underlaying business model?

Google maps can charge for API use. They already do. Services can charge money -- not everything has to be ad supported. Business models aren't inviolate things -- they exploit existing regulations. When the regulations change, then so do the business models.

Then why do you use ad-supported services rather than going for the ones which do not collect your data and instead charge you money directly?

Re: Facebook's data gathering hit by German anti-trust clampdown

#42

Post by [deleted] »

wolfi1 wrote: post #34
detaro wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "other data collectors exist" have to do with Facebook's status as the dominating social network (95% (measuring DAUs)/80% (measuring MAUs) market share according to the press release)? Facebook also clearly cites other social media companies/networks from a wider scope in defense, not data collectors.

there are other relevant collectors as well for example Deutsche Post (German Postal Services), see https://www.dw.com/en/deutsche-post-sold-voter-microtargetin...

[deleted]

Re: Facebook's data gathering hit by German anti-trust clampdown

#43

Post by duxup »

Going by Facebook's history .... what are the chances they abide by any of this?

Facebook has shown they're going to do what they want how they want regardless of public perception, deals with other companies, other company rules, and arguably laws already in place.

Re: Facebook's data gathering hit by German anti-trust clampdown

#44

Post by duxup »

mschuster91 wrote: post #2

Facebook's statement is... interesting. > The Bundeskartellamt underestimates the fierce competition we face in Germany Which competition? The only viable social network in Germany that came close to Facebook was Lokalisten, which shuttered finally in 2016.

I think most companies internally think of anything that takes a user away from their service or site, even unrelated as competition.

Fortnite is the bogeyman for all entertainment and so forth.

But yeah as for social network, nothing.

Re: Facebook's data gathering hit by German anti-trust clampdown

#46

Post by Isn0gud »

mediumdeviation wrote: post #10
Grollicus wrote: post #5

If I remember correctly Facebook was only allowed to buy Whatsapp in France because they promised not to share user data between the two services. The German data protection agency basically didn't say anything only because the french said it already. Now Facebook does it's mix-and-mash anyways. I'd have expected to hear something out of France about this. Did I just miss it?

Facebook has already been fined by the European commission in 2017 to the tune of 110M Euros over this. It is a drop in the bucket compared to the billions Facebook paid for WhatsApp though - so small one suspect Facebook might have already factored it into the cost of the acquisition. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/18/facebook-fi...

Isn't the point of fines to punish past bad behaviour? Why aren't there escalating fines if a company continues to not comply with rulings? I mean it is not a one time thing that can't be changed.

Sorry for asking, I know next to nothing about how these laws work.

Re: Facebook's data gathering hit by German anti-trust clampdown

#47

Post by AJ007 »

adventured wrote: post #4
mschuster91 wrote: post #2

Facebook's statement is... interesting. > The Bundeskartellamt underestimates the fierce competition we face in Germany Which competition? The only viable social network in Germany that came close to Facebook was Lokalisten, which shuttered finally in 2016.

Facebook's response is without question following Peter Thiel's monopolist argumentation position. If you're a monopolist, widen your pool of competition to include anything you possibly can. If your employees consume fruit at work, proclaim you're competing with Chiquita bananas (and have a tiny share of the fruit market). If your employees ever fly on planes, proclaim your position in jets is terribly weak next to…

The other part of Peter Thiel's point is that if you aren't a monopoly, you pretend you are, so you can convince investors you are much more valuable.

Re: Facebook's data gathering hit by German anti-trust clampdown

#48

Post by simplecomplex »

mtgx wrote: post #16
Grollicus wrote: post #5

If I remember correctly Facebook was only allowed to buy Whatsapp in France because they promised not to share user data between the two services. The German data protection agency basically didn't say anything only because the french said it already. Now Facebook does it's mix-and-mash anyways. I'd have expected to hear something out of France about this. Did I just miss it?

Too many anti-trust agencies seem to have a "Oh well, what's done is done, what can you do now?!" attitude towards violations. If one of the primary conditions of the merger was that WhatsApp was not allowed to share user data with FB, and then FB goes ahead and does it anyway (even before ever prompting users to agree with this), then that should be all the reason the agencies need to order the split of WhatsApp fro…

Anti-trust is vague and arbitrary. Companies can’t avoid violation because it’s not clear what a violation actually is.

Re: Facebook's data gathering hit by German anti-trust clampdown

#49

Post by rsj_hn »

RestlessMind wrote: post #41
rsj_hn wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google maps can charge for API use. They already do. Services can charge money -- not everything has to be ad supported. Business models aren't inviolate things -- they exploit existing regulations. When the regulations change, then so do the business models.

Then why do you use ad-supported services rather than going for the ones which do not collect your data and instead charge you money directly?

Pretty much all services make money from tracking you because it's legal and doesn't cost them anything.

Even those that charge. E.g. google maps will charge the vendor and still track the user. A WSJ subscription will still have tracking code and third party js, etc.

As long as it's free for the service and there are no penalties, then of course they will try to collect as much data on you as you allow them to collect. But it's your responsibility as an internet user to prevent them from collecting anything that you don't approve of, and to block third parties from injecting their code into your equipment unless you vet that code or otherwise trust it. When stuff like spying and data collection is outlawed, this creates economic room for honest players to participate in honest business practices. We're just not there yet.

Re: Facebook's data gathering hit by German anti-trust clampdown

#50

Post by expertentipp »

close04 wrote: post #17
expertentipp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are smarter - they provide this bait-facade of "usefulness", Germans are more direct and down-to-the-business e.g. there are billboards on the streets of German cities with "privacy campaigns" actively agitating against Facebook, country-wide hysteria against social networks (or even internet in general). Someone certainly pays for it - articles, billboards, etc are not a volunteer work.

I'm sure someone must pay. But I can make assumptions all by myself with little to no help. What I could really use are details, facts, evidence. So I'm forced to reiterate, care to provide some? I don't mean evidence that people want more privacy and someone is paying/putting up billboards advocating this. Do you have some evidence ( anything ) that these yet unnamed companies are behind a strategy to stain FB's ima…

An example from the street of a major German city: https://i.imgur.com/owlT9Rv.jpg

I have absolutely no insight into any lobbying activities, obviously.

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