Live data from Hacker News

Stack Overflow: Helping One Million Developers Exit Vim (2017)

stackoverflow.blog

41–50 of 149 posts

Re: Stack Overflow: Helping One Million Developers Exit Vim (2017)

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you consider the case where the user has never used any vi variant before?

it's still not much harder. Just press F1, like in most applications or type " cheatsheet" into your favorite search engine. Takes less than a minute to figure it out.

I assume people type 'quit vim' into their favourite search engine as that's a shorter search term, and get the SO link. I don't think many people actually search SO directly.

Re: Stack Overflow: Helping One Million Developers Exit Vim (2017)

#42
post #2

First time I used vim more than a decade ago, I got stuck too. Kill vim from other console and then googled it for future reference.

A professional would use the man page.

> A professional would use the man page.

A professional would verify that the man page contains the information that they snarkily told others to look for there before they told them to read the man pages. In this case it doesn’t.

The closest you get to that sort of information from the vim man page is:

> Type ":help" in Vim to get started. Type ":help subject" to get help on a specific subject. For example: ":help ZZ" to get help for the "ZZ" command. Use and CTRL-D to complete subjects (":help cmdline-completion"). Tags are present to jump from one place to another (sort of hypertext links, see ":help"). All documentation files can be viewed in this way, for example ":help syntax.txt".

So you need to find this portion of the man page, which is quite far down in the Vim man page, and you need to realize that it means you should type :help quit or :help exit. The information you get from those two are different btw because quit and exit mean two different things.

That is quite much to expect from someone if they’ve confused their way into vim without being familiar with vim.

On top of that, when you use :help quit or :help exit, the first time you use the command to quit or exit it will close the help text but you’ll still be in vim so you need to do it again.

Re: Stack Overflow: Helping One Million Developers Exit Vim (2017)

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you consider the case where the user has never used any vi variant before?

it's still not much harder. Just press F1, like in most applications or type " cheatsheet" into your favorite search engine. Takes less than a minute to figure it out.

...yup, and that’s how the phrase in the title is made true.

Re: Stack Overflow: Helping One Million Developers Exit Vim (2017)

#44
post #34

How is this even possible? I used EMACS for years and had no trouble understanding Vim. Who's hiring these developers who can't even exit Vim? Is this even a real story or the Onion?!? OK, it's real. I need to go outside and get some fresh air. This is simply too shocking.

This is totally anecdotal, and I'm not making fun of them. Most of the time when I talk to people who have no experience with Vim, they develop apps on the Windows platform. (They use Visual Studio.) They just haven't been exposed to it. They don't need to learn it. Until several of them started using Git, there was absolutely no need to ever touch it. This isn't every Windows developer. I'm sure there are several who know it, but that is my experience.

Re: Stack Overflow: Helping One Million Developers Exit Vim (2017)

#46
post #27

You just reboot the computer. The problem is that when you want to close Vim on a server and so call the sysop and ask him to reboot, he gets all testy. Not a team player.

I always restart 3 times just like the sysop told me to.

Re: Stack Overflow: Helping One Million Developers Exit Vim (2017)

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with this attitude shouldn't be using a computer, for fear they might get into software development and alienate an entire swathe of potentially great engineers.

I sincerely hope that I do eliminate such people who can't figure out how to quit out of vim.

I got fight and flight but wasn’t lucky enough to inherit the vim key bindings. Darn parents!

Re: Stack Overflow: Helping One Million Developers Exit Vim (2017)

#48
I guess whether vim is poorly designed is up for debate. It’s a power user’s tool, so maybe you sacrifice intuitive behaviour or an elegant learning curve for a more powerful tool once you’re familiar with its design.

Less controversial is that any design where vim becomes the default editor, but the user may not necessarily be familiar with vim, is a bad decision. I can’t think of a justification for that.

Re: Stack Overflow: Helping One Million Developers Exit Vim (2017)

#49
post #27

You just reboot the computer. The problem is that when you want to close Vim on a server and so call the sysop and ask him to reboot, he gets all testy. Not a team player.

I always restart 3 times just like the sysop told me to.

It’s best to power off and then quickly flip the on/off switch a bunch of times. As a bonus, you get to stress-test your power supply!
Post reply on HN