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Let Children Get Bored Again

nytimes.com

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Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#41

Post by csmeder »

There are two separate issues:

A. 1,000 ft view: drugs are bad. Both chemical drugs and electronic entertainment that is engineered to be addictive. Light weight drugs in small doses are less bad: 90s vs now.

B. 50,000 ft view: the real problem. When rats are put in normal laboratory settings they choose drugs over food and water if given the choice. Most of our research on addiction is based on this. In a study where the rats were placed in a healthy environment they chose food and water over drugs.

We live and raise our children in the former. Humans evolved to be raised in an environment much closer to what is happening over in Germany with Forests kindergartens https://youtu.be/31eBV6ZTNDQ

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#42

Post by Pharmakon »

beobab wrote: post #35
Pharmakon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My memory of those years was that a lot of TV was shit by any standard, and most of it wasn’t aimed at kids. Sure, you had Saturday morning cartoons, and endless reruns, but it was painfully easy to be bored in front of the TV. Games were fun if you had them, but the lack of complexity and depth, alongside limited supply of them meant they got boring too. I don’t think comparing the TV most people had in the 80’s and…

Have you observed the phenomenon of “being bored with the internet”? I’m not sure boredom is completely satiated by novelty. I have experienced “I’m bored” events, where I had plenty of new experiences to try if I wanted.

As an adult? Hell yes, but as a kid? Ehhh... not so much. It takes time to notice patterns in storylines, presentation, production value, and for novelty to wear off. Personally you could execute me with a 24hr loop of any Let’s Play video, but my nephew lives and breathes them.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#43

Post by smacktoward »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #9
cortesoft wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is also interesting how they categorize the activities... apparently reading a book doesn’t count as “avoiding boredom”, but playing a video game does... why? Both are using something to entertain yourself, and it seems pretty arbitrary to distinguish between them. In fact, I am pretty sure there has been times on our history where reading fiction was treated the same way we treat watching YouTube videos tod…

I think there's some truth to that, though. As a former video game addict, I look back on my time spent gaming as largely a waste. Most of it was a compulsion, like staying up until 4am re-queuing in Dota. Or grinding some armor piece. But I don't look back with regret on any of my time spent reading. I think most people here know what I'm talking about. Why is that? I can think of a few guesses. Books aren't in the…

I dunno, I think there are (or can be, anyway) good games and bad games, and good books and bad books.

I remember playing many hours of Sid Meier's Pirates! when I was a kid, for instance, and then my history teacher being amazed at how much I actual history I'd learned about the 17th century Caribbean. And I've read tons of pulp novels that weren't enriching in any way, they were just fun to read, empty mental calories for me in the same way it sounds like Dota was for you.

I feel like it's more fruitful to ask what makes good games and books good and bad games and books bad than it is to put all books in the "good" pile and all games in the "bad" one.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#44

Post by joe_the_user »

cortesoft wrote: post #6
tarr11 wrote: post #4

The parade of concerned parents writing these kinds of articles have conveniently forgotten how much TV and video games many of us consumed in 1980s and 1990s. This stuff reads like satire: “Rather than teach them to absorb material that is slower, duller and decidedly two-dimensional, like a lot of worthwhile information is, schools cave in to what they say children expect: fun. ” The kids are going to be alright.

Yeah, it is also interesting how they categorize the activities... apparently reading a book doesn’t count as “avoiding boredom”, but playing a video game does... why? Both are using something to entertain yourself, and it seems pretty arbitrary to distinguish between them. In fact, I am pretty sure there has been times on our history where reading fiction was treated the same way we treat watching YouTube videos tod…

Yeah, it is also interesting how they categorize the activities... apparently reading a book doesn’t count as “avoiding boredom”, but playing a video game does... why?

- Why? Because a video game move forward at it's speed, setting, since it keeps things going regardless, it's own agenda. A book only moves forward at the speed of a child's own thinking. There's always an opportunity to stop and think when reading a book.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#45

Post by cortesoft »

IdiocyInAction wrote: post #30
hombre_fatal wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's some truth to that, though. As a former video game addict, I look back on my time spent gaming as largely a waste. Most of it was a compulsion, like staying up until 4am re-queuing in Dota. Or grinding some armor piece. But I don't look back with regret on any of my time spent reading. I think most people here know what I'm talking about. Why is that? I can think of a few guesses. Books aren't in the…

I count reading entertainment-focused books in the same category as games personally. At the end of the day, it's usually ecsapism. Good point with learning to read and spell though, that's a plus books have over TV and games, especially for kids.

My division is between 'consumptive' activities and 'productive' activities... are you passively absorbing something someone else created or are you creating something yourself?

You need a balance of the two to have a healthy life.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#46

Post by crooked-v »

csmeder wrote: post #41

There are two separate issues: A. 1,000 ft view: drugs are bad. Both chemical drugs and electronic entertainment that is engineered to be addictive. Light weight drugs in small doses are less bad: 90s vs now. B. 50,000 ft view: the real problem. When rats are put in normal laboratory settings they choose drugs over food and water if given the choice. Most of our research on addiction is based on this. In a study wher…

> When rats are put in normal laboratory settings they choose drugs over food and water if given the choice. Most of our research on addiction is based on this. In a study where the rats were placed in a healthy environment they chose food and water over drugs.

I'm reminded of the mouse "utopia" experiment, and how people somehow find it surprising or insightful that animals left stuck in an overcrowded cage indefinitely with no entertainment and nothing to do gradually go insane.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#47

Post by memory_grep »

darkpuma wrote: post #2

Makes sense. Many of my best memories as a child started off with me being bored. My mother only let me have 30 minutes of screen time per day, computer and television combined, so the rest of the time I was forced to run around bored looking for things to do.

Me, too. I created a bunch of games, stories, and things as a kid because of boredom. I feel like those experiences helped shape how I think as an adult in a positive way.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#48

Post by clubm8 »

csmeder wrote: post #41

There are two separate issues: A. 1,000 ft view: drugs are bad. Both chemical drugs and electronic entertainment that is engineered to be addictive. Light weight drugs in small doses are less bad: 90s vs now. B. 50,000 ft view: the real problem. When rats are put in normal laboratory settings they choose drugs over food and water if given the choice. Most of our research on addiction is based on this. In a study wher…

Personally I think the issue is, and I struggled for a long time to articulate this... escape.

I have always struggled with a cluster of issues... too much tv, too much internet, for a period in college binge drinking, overeating... the big "aha!" was that I was engaging in these behaviors to escape reality.

We live in a unique time where if you don't like the reality you're in, you can step into another. Society has rightfully developed stigmas against other harmful behaviors. But the issue is a level deeper.

For the first time in history, we can "escape" or "drop out" or whatever you wish to call it without chemicals. It's a powerful urge... after all, if you have a limited time on earth, and the world's information at your fingertips, it becomes extremely tempting to just tune out... everything.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#49

Post by brightball »

csmeder wrote: post #41

There are two separate issues: A. 1,000 ft view: drugs are bad. Both chemical drugs and electronic entertainment that is engineered to be addictive. Light weight drugs in small doses are less bad: 90s vs now. B. 50,000 ft view: the real problem. When rats are put in normal laboratory settings they choose drugs over food and water if given the choice. Most of our research on addiction is based on this. In a study wher…

Some friends of mine and their girls moved to Germany for 2 years and talk non-stop about these schools. They say it’s the thing they miss the most.

Re: Let Children Get Bored Again

#50

Post by IggleSniggle »

joe_the_user wrote: post #44
cortesoft wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is also interesting how they categorize the activities... apparently reading a book doesn’t count as “avoiding boredom”, but playing a video game does... why? Both are using something to entertain yourself, and it seems pretty arbitrary to distinguish between them. In fact, I am pretty sure there has been times on our history where reading fiction was treated the same way we treat watching YouTube videos tod…

Yeah, it is also interesting how they categorize the activities... apparently reading a book doesn’t count as “avoiding boredom”, but playing a video game does... why? - Why? Because a video game move forward at it's speed, setting, since it keeps things going regardless, it's own agenda. A book only moves forward at the speed of a child's own thinking. There's always an opportunity to stop and think when reading a b…

Every game I played as a kid moved at my speed because they were turn based or puzzle based, with the exception of WarCraft. Even many games today that are popular with kids, like Minecraft, can move at real-time speed but still be designed to be self-paced. In Minecraft, there’s always an opportunity to stop and think.
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