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The Postmodern Family Clan

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Re: The Postmodern Family Clan

#41

Post by kiba »

0x445442 wrote: post #21

I see these types of stories as propaganda aiming to placate younger generations into accepting a lower standard of living than their predecessors. The ones I really get a kick out of are all the Tiny Home shows popping up. I know, I know, some people really are embracing simplicity and being unencumbered by the responsibilities past generations faced. However, what these types of stories are really saying is; sorry…

There's no need for such a dichotomy.

How about we live simpler lives and yet become wealthier?

And I have no idea why would we want to all live in single detached home when the alternative is to densify and reduce humanity's footprint on nature.

Re: The Postmodern Family Clan

#42

Post by poilcn »

0x445442 wrote: post #21

I see these types of stories as propaganda aiming to placate younger generations into accepting a lower standard of living than their predecessors. The ones I really get a kick out of are all the Tiny Home shows popping up. I know, I know, some people really are embracing simplicity and being unencumbered by the responsibilities past generations faced. However, what these types of stories are really saying is; sorry…

That's not mainstream and won't ever be. It's kinda sensationalism. I thinks such low-effort "ideas" are republished once in 10 years. This maybe happens somewhere, but in general it's just noise. Average household size decreases in the US and in other developed countries. https://www.statista.com/statistics/183648/average-size-of-h... Speaking about "tiny home", it's not a trend as well. Median and Average Square Feet of Floor Area in New Single-Family Houses Completed by Location: https://web.archive.org/web/20190105112830/http://www.census...

Re: The Postmodern Family Clan

#43

Post by jnbiche »

iguy wrote: post #40
jnbiche wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The likelihood of 6 adult individuals meeting and having sufficient overlap in goals and interests and habits to create a cohesive home is laughable. I disagree. Already, there's a significant movement underway in the US called "co-living", which shares a lot of the features described by the author: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coliving

Are there numbers? The trend from what I understand is exactly the opposite. The US has passed 40% of births to unmarried mothers [1], so we're approaching a default family of 1 adult. (Possibly 1 adult present + some percentage of another's earning power, enforced by the courts, but still.) [1] https://www.heritage.org/sites/default/files/~/media/images/...

Oh, I'm not claiming it's a large national movement. I'm sure the numbers are tiny, well under 1%. Also, coliving is confined to urban areas.

The main reason I brought up coliving was as a counterexample to the claim that multi-couple cohabitation could never work. Even though the number of participants is currently quite low, there are thousands of people successfully living like this even in modern America.

Re: The Postmodern Family Clan

#44

Post by iguy »

poilcn wrote: post #42
0x445442 wrote: post #21

I see these types of stories as propaganda aiming to placate younger generations into accepting a lower standard of living than their predecessors. The ones I really get a kick out of are all the Tiny Home shows popping up. I know, I know, some people really are embracing simplicity and being unencumbered by the responsibilities past generations faced. However, what these types of stories are really saying is; sorry…

That's not mainstream and won't ever be. It's kinda sensationalism. I thinks such low-effort "ideas" are republished once in 10 years. This maybe happens somewhere, but in general it's just noise. Average household size decreases in the US and in other developed countries. https://www.statista.com/statistics/183648/average-size-of-h... Speaking about "tiny home", it's not a trend as well. Median and Average Square Fe…

Totally agree about these articles.

Note that the trends in the sizes of new homes completed are a little misleading, I think, as they reflect boom suburbs, rather than the occupied stock. Not an expert, but here's an attempt to track the floor area of occupied housing, and it's much closer to flat (US, 20th C): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4532357/figure/...

Re: The Postmodern Family Clan

#45

Post by lotsofpulp »

jnbiche wrote: post #37
lotsofpulp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great until you throw a child into the mix. Or a sick in law who needs care. Or anything more complicated than a clean kitchen and bathroom.

Some coliving housing is even oriented toward families with children and other dependents. Look it up, you'll be surprised.

I'm sure there are some people who can make it work, but my intent was to point out that it seems impossible to make it work for the vast majority. I would be interested in seeing how the normal political issues of a family are worked out between even more "chiefs". In a two person household, this is not too hard, as one person can yield to the other sometimes and vice versa, but I don't see many organizations functioning without some sort of hierarchy system.

Re: The Postmodern Family Clan

#46

Post by lunchables »

0x445442 wrote: post #21

I see these types of stories as propaganda aiming to placate younger generations into accepting a lower standard of living than their predecessors. The ones I really get a kick out of are all the Tiny Home shows popping up. I know, I know, some people really are embracing simplicity and being unencumbered by the responsibilities past generations faced. However, what these types of stories are really saying is; sorry…

I would love to live in a tiny house because I don't need much space and it seems like such a waste to pay for a big house to heat and cool. Plus, as someone who bought a house in 2007 right before the recession, I don't really think of a home as an investment. It can be, but the timing can also be risky. So I'd rather have a small house and invest my money elsewhere, and not waste all that energy and money to maintain a big house I don't need.

The problem is I also want to live close to work. So it's all about trying to find that balance of cost, space and proximity that makes it all very difficult.

But the issue just isn't as simple as people "accepting lower standards of living".

Re: The Postmodern Family Clan

#47

Post by arkades »

hanklazard wrote: post #14

Interesting read. I think this idea underestimated the challenges posed by having more adults in a family unit, especially when major decisions are made. Life events like moving to a new city, finding new employment, etc can be very difficult even for two people. Add in a few more and it seems that every major decision is being made by a committee—I imagine this could be very frustrating and problematic. Jim + Sally…

It also underestimates the difficulty of finding such pairings to begin with. Most people seem to have trouble finding a 1:1 pairing that is long-term stable and desirable. Four adults, as depicted in this story, would presumably require at least twelve long-term stable pairings. That's ... incredibly unlikely. Not impossible, but hardly something I'd expect to become a widespread social trend.

There's a reason this traditionally happens in situations of consanginuity: there are strong per-existing bonds that are considered non-negotiable due to existing social structures.

Re: The Postmodern Family Clan

#48

Post by mcphage »

iguy wrote: post #40
jnbiche wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The likelihood of 6 adult individuals meeting and having sufficient overlap in goals and interests and habits to create a cohesive home is laughable. I disagree. Already, there's a significant movement underway in the US called "co-living", which shares a lot of the features described by the author: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coliving

Are there numbers? The trend from what I understand is exactly the opposite. The US has passed 40% of births to unmarried mothers [1], so we're approaching a default family of 1 adult. (Possibly 1 adult present + some percentage of another's earning power, enforced by the courts, but still.) [1] https://www.heritage.org/sites/default/files/~/media/images/...

> The US has passed 40% of births to unmarried mothers [1], so we're approaching a default family of 1 adult.

The parents being unmarried doesn't mean that the father is out of the picture.

Re: The Postmodern Family Clan

#49

Post by iguy »

mcphage wrote: post #48
iguy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there numbers? The trend from what I understand is exactly the opposite. The US has passed 40% of births to unmarried mothers [1], so we're approaching a default family of 1 adult. (Possibly 1 adult present + some percentage of another's earning power, enforced by the courts, but still.) [1] https://www.heritage.org/sites/default/files/~/media/images/...

> The US has passed 40% of births to unmarried mothers [1], so we're approaching a default family of 1 adult. The parents being unmarried doesn't mean that the father is out of the picture.

Of course, nor does having been married on day one imply that he is still in the picture. But what I described is the trend. And the right order of magnitude.

Re: The Postmodern Family Clan

#50

Post by kaybe »

shard972 wrote: post #20

I'm sorry but i just find the idea quite horrifying for the children involved. On paper everything is just daises but I just don't see this turning out well if this were to start becoming a common trend. Or maybe the human race can transcend the nuclear family, I guess we will find out soon enough.

What kind of problems do you envision?
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