Tech Salaries Stagnant Despite Low Unemployment: Survey • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech Salaries Stagnant Despite Low Unemployment: Survey

#41

Post by Alex3917 » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 8:08 PM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #28

Job market is sort of similar to the real estate market. If you're shopping for a house (or looking for a job), it's pointless to look at the "market as a whole", because that's not the segment you're in: you're shopping for something narrow and specific. A much better statistic would be to break things down by specialization, seniority, and whether or not a person had a stint at FAANG (which, and this will be delibe…

> Job market is sort of similar to the real estate market.

It's even more straightforward than that; tech salaries, like real estate prices, are heavily influenced by interest rates.

Re: Tech Salaries Stagnant Despite Low Unemployment: Survey

#42

Post by seem_2211 » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 8:09 PM UTC

In tech sales at startups there has been a significant uptick in base salaries and total compensation packages. The most lucrative companies two years ago are fighting to remain relevant (when they haven't updated their compensation packages). It's not all good as it does mean that there's much less margin than there was a few years ago, but as other commentators have pointed out, this data is less than worthless.

I have a pretty good pulse on B2B software sales comp data (because that's my job), but I know nothing about how marketers or engineers or FAANG pay. It's like trying to make a generalization about "Finance" but then putting together a compensation survey that takes in the M&A rainmakers at Goldman Sachs in with retail tellers at Bank of America and gives you an average. Pointless.

Re: Tech Salaries Stagnant Despite Low Unemployment: Survey

#43

Post by VRay » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 8:11 PM UTC

_bxg1 wrote: post #21

kamarg wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Er...isn't the general agreement that if you want to get rich you absolutely should not go work for or found a startup but instead get a steady job at big corp and live below your means? People are always on about how shares in a startup should be counted as $0 compensation. Not to mention $93k doesn't go very far in places with large populations and high job prospects.

1) I assume the $93k isn't in SV and Seattle 2) The general wisdom if you want to get financially well-off is what you describe. Those who'd prefer to risk it all for a shot at being filthy rich do startups.

Some people on this thread think of "comfortable" as: "Own a decent house/condo within 20 minutes of work", and they're right, Seattle/SF isn't "comfortable" at 93k

Everyone ELSE on this thread needs to learn how to manage their finances. $93k in Seattle is $65k after taxes, call it $50k after putting $15k a year into your retirement plan.

Remainder: $4100 a month post-tax

You can rent a small apartment within 30-60 minutes of downtown for $1500 a month, leaving $2600 for utilities, groceries, entertainment, etc. That's a good $50 a day left over for food and entertainment, easily.

I'd call that comfortable, personally. That said, I wouldn't take an offer in Seattle for less than $200k and I wouldn't take an offer in Silicon Valley for (SeattlePay+$12,000)/0.9 because of the higher rent and state income tax

Re: Tech Salaries Stagnant Despite Low Unemployment: Survey

#44

Post by lgleason » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 8:14 PM UTC

Most of the salary surveys on sites like dice show numbers that are lower than what people who know what they are doing actually end up getting. Sites like Blind etc. tell a better story.

Re: Tech Salaries Stagnant Despite Low Unemployment: Survey

#45

Post by oceanplexian » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 8:18 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #16

_bxg1 wrote: post #10

I'd bet it's just a function of what people are willing to do the job for. $93k gives you a very comfortable lifestyle, and tech workers tend to be much more motivated by the work itself than their peers. Those who really care about getting rich will go to SV and do a startup. So there's not as much pressure for increase.

$93k supporting a family (stay at home partner, two kids) is most definitely not comfortable, whether in the Midwest or the coasts. Insurance premiums alone would be ~$15k/year (pretax, but still). Throw in a mortgage or rent @ $1500/month, that's another $18k/year, you've already consumed a third of your wages.

I don't really agree with this premise for a few reasons. $1500 a month is insane for the midwest (Unless you're talking about a huge house on a few acres, or a luxury condo in a large midwestern city). You could spend $1000 a month on a mortgage and live comfortably in a nice 3-4 bedroom house in a good neighborhood in most parts of Iowa, for example.

Lastly, if you have a family of 4, there is a Federal Child Tax Credit of $2000 per child, your standard deduction goes up significantly if you're married and head of household and the lower tax brackets cover a larger portion of your income. So the overall tax burden is much, much less than a single guy making 100k a year.

I did a quick calculation and figured someone making 93k a year in Iowa would be taking home $1,332 a week with 4 allowances. That's 5300/mo - 1200 for insurance (Which seems nuts unless your employer doesn't have good plans), and $1000 for housing, and 1000 for food and 500 for transportation/misc bills, that leaves $1600 a month extra. I wouldn't say that's rich but it is comfortable and even enough to save a for retirement.

Re: Tech Salaries Stagnant Despite Low Unemployment: Survey

#46

Post by esrauch » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 8:19 PM UTC

zn44 wrote: post #40

xxxanony wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure... plenty of software engineers will gladly accept less than X to NOT work at a FAANG company.

not to mention there's quite a few companies who don't want FAANG type of engineers

What is the aspect of FAANG engineers they don't want?

Re: Tech Salaries Stagnant Despite Low Unemployment: Survey

#47

Post by lgleason » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 8:21 PM UTC

iaw wrote: post #2

A trend I've seen is using salary consultation services that peg the company compensation to rest of market. When enough of an industry does this it has the same result as price fixing but without collusion.

^^^^ This. There seems to be a built in incentive for these "salary surveys" for corporate sites like Dice to do this which is why actual salaries tend to be higher. It is funny to watch companies that rely on these and low ball surveys struggle to get good people.

Re: Tech Salaries Stagnant Despite Low Unemployment: Survey

#48

Post by matco11 » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 8:21 PM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #28

Job market is sort of similar to the real estate market. If you're shopping for a house (or looking for a job), it's pointless to look at the "market as a whole", because that's not the segment you're in: you're shopping for something narrow and specific. A much better statistic would be to break things down by specialization, seniority, and whether or not a person had a stint at FAANG (which, and this will be delibe…

You can apply the same reasoning, perhaps in an even simpler way, to the “low unemployment” part of the statement. “unemployment” is a stat defined at general population level, reaching well beyond the engineering space. Low unemployment means it is probably harder to hire someone out there, but it does not contain any information about how is now harder/easier to hire engineers, let alone tech engineers.

Re: Tech Salaries Stagnant Despite Low Unemployment: Survey

#49

Post by lotsofpulp » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 8:22 PM UTC

brundolf wrote: post #26

idiot900 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$93k does not give a very comfortable lifestyle in SF/NYC.

Presumably that amount is for living in normal places. Even in Austin TX, which has become relatively expensive, I lived quite comfortably on an entry-level salary of $65k in 2015.

Comfortable is subjective. For dual high income household, such as doctors/lawyers/engineers, if you want to raise kids in a neighborhood of similarly successful people, you’ll need to be pulling in a household $200k+ per year, even in medium CoL areas.

It’s always relative, and for those that go to target schools and have lucrative careers, and their network is full of others in a similar boat, then they will be competing with that level of income.

Re: Tech Salaries Stagnant Despite Low Unemployment: Survey

#50

Post by oflannabhra » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 8:23 PM UTC

Wow. In this thread, I am seeing a lot of people severely overestimating the percentage that FAANG employees comprise of the total market.

Just as the Bay Area and New York have real estate markets that are outliers of the rest of the country, so are the salaries outliers for the rest of our industry.

The report covers the industry as a whole, and demand for developers is growing just about everywhere. The questions the report raises can't be answered solely through the lens of Silicon Valley.

There is a lot of evidence that wages aren't rising across the entire economy, even with a tight labor market. I don't know of anyone that has proposed a solid economic theory for why that is, but it looks like our industry is only part of a larger trend.