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Elite Soccer’s Culture of Graft

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Re: Elite Soccer’s Culture of Graft

#41

Post by rtpg »

pjc50 wrote: post #6
pitt1980 wrote: post #3

Interesting that Messi had tax problems in Spain as well. Neither of these guys are filling out their own taxes. Why did their accountants think it was a good idea to complete their taxes in a way that wound up getting them in trouble? Or why did Spain think these guys were alluring targets to spend finite prosecutorial resources on?

The answer to both questions is surely "several million dollars"? This stuff happens a lot. Celebrities don't make money through a business front nor do they get to class it as capital gains. It's all "income", so the incentive to turn it into a cheaper tax category or hide it offshore is huge. See also the Glasgow Rangers collapse due to tax fraud.

I'm sure celebrities can easily package their offerings as an LLC or the like. It's just that then you can't spend it however you like.

You want to spend your money however you like? That's income. "They can't play tax tricks to avoid income tax" is the system working, not a bug

Re: Elite Soccer’s Culture of Graft

#42

Post by anitil »

pitt1980 wrote: post #3

Interesting that Messi had tax problems in Spain as well. Neither of these guys are filling out their own taxes. Why did their accountants think it was a good idea to complete their taxes in a way that wound up getting them in trouble? Or why did Spain think these guys were alluring targets to spend finite prosecutorial resources on?

I can't find the episode, but Planet Money had an episode where they found the US tax department made a deliberate target of celebrities, with the expectation that public prosecution of these people (think Martha Stewart) would result in higher tax compliance. This makes them a better ROI than your local greengrocer.

Re: Elite Soccer’s Culture of Graft

#43

Post by bmer »

PhilWright wrote: post #12

Tax minimization schemes go through trends and fads just like any other area of creativity. When the accountants and lawyers come up with a scheme for one celebrity footballer, it is likely to get used again for others. Once it becomes common enough the government closes the loophole and the creatives go back to finding the next scheme. Sometimes the court decides the scheme is illegal and then they go after all thos…

> Once it becomes common enough the government closes the loophole and the creatives go back to finding the next scheme.

Creatives? Do you mean criminals. I do believe it is necessary to socially stigmatize the crime, if we do want to improve things. Pedophiles can be creative, but we do not go around saying "then, the creatives find a new to continue distributing child porn". (Extreme example chosen on purpose.)

> Politically it looks good to grab money from millionaires that look like they were exploiting your system.

Sure, or maybe it actually is good, because you get funds to use for public projects?

Re: Elite Soccer’s Culture of Graft

#44

Post by ip26 »

dmos62 wrote: post #20
shellac wrote: post #11

In this article ‘graft’ means corruption or similar, rather than ‘hard work’. Slightly confusing.

Graft is a funny word. It seems to come from horticulture and means "to join or unite". Then it's used as a synonym for work, especially hard work, which doesn't have an obvious relation to the horticultural use. Then there's the corruption meaning, which is a metaphor of how a parasite forms a union with its host, I presume. So if you're being metaphoric, "graft" can be used for a harmonic union and an abusive union…

"Cleave" can mean both "to split apart" or "to join together".

Re: Elite Soccer’s Culture of Graft

#45

Post by mc32 »

ip26 wrote: post #44
dmos62 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Graft is a funny word. It seems to come from horticulture and means "to join or unite". Then it's used as a synonym for work, especially hard work, which doesn't have an obvious relation to the horticultural use. Then there's the corruption meaning, which is a metaphor of how a parasite forms a union with its host, I presume. So if you're being metaphoric, "graft" can be used for a harmonic union and an abusive union…

"Cleave" can mean both "to split apart" or "to join together".

In that vein sanction can mean approve (homologate) and it can mean punish, penalize.

Re: Elite Soccer’s Culture of Graft

#46

Post by adrianratnapala »

omaranto wrote: post #19
shellac wrote: post #11

In this article ‘graft’ means corruption or similar, rather than ‘hard work’. Slightly confusing.

The title uses the word "soccer", which should lead you to expect the American meaning of "graft" rather than the British meaning.

I didn't realise this was an Americanism.

At least in Australia both meanings are common and it has always seemed pretty clear from the context which meaning was which.

Re: Elite Soccer’s Culture of Graft

#47

Post by thaumasiotes »

dmos62 wrote: post #20
shellac wrote: post #11

In this article ‘graft’ means corruption or similar, rather than ‘hard work’. Slightly confusing.

Graft is a funny word. It seems to come from horticulture and means "to join or unite". Then it's used as a synonym for work, especially hard work, which doesn't have an obvious relation to the horticultural use. Then there's the corruption meaning, which is a metaphor of how a parasite forms a union with its host, I presume. So if you're being metaphoric, "graft" can be used for a harmonic union and an abusive union…

According to https://www.etymonline.com/word/graft ...

graft (the horticultural concept) derives ultimately from the Greek for "stylus", after the knife used in the process, and this etymology is considered reliable.

graft (British English for your job) is not well understood but speculated to come from the word graft (meaning ditch/trench), possibly from Dutch.

graft (American English for corruption) is speculated to come from the British word for your job. It's not felt to be related to the horticultural term.

Re: Elite Soccer’s Culture of Graft

#48

Post by thaumasiotes »

petercooper wrote: post #39
sgustard wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't the British term spelled "graught"?

I enjoyed the tongue in cheek question, but words where "aught" sounds like "aft" are Germanic in origin (such as laughter or draught), whereas "graft" is French in origin :-) A lot of the more unusual spellings in British English (in particular) relate to trying to distinguish words by their origin.

etymonline suggests that "graft" the horticultural term is French in its immediate origin (Greek in actual origin; the French word descends from a Greek word borrowed into Latin), but "graft" the term for a job is more likely... Dutch. It isn't related to the other graft.

Re: Elite Soccer’s Culture of Graft

#49

Post by dmos62 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #47
dmos62 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Graft is a funny word. It seems to come from horticulture and means "to join or unite". Then it's used as a synonym for work, especially hard work, which doesn't have an obvious relation to the horticultural use. Then there's the corruption meaning, which is a metaphor of how a parasite forms a union with its host, I presume. So if you're being metaphoric, "graft" can be used for a harmonic union and an abusive union…

According to https://www.etymonline.com/word/graft ... graft (the horticultural concept) derives ultimately from the Greek for "stylus", after the knife used in the process, and this etymology is considered reliable. graft (British English for your job) is not well understood but speculated to come from the word graft (meaning ditch/trench), possibly from Dutch. graft (American English for corruption) is speculated t…

Thanks for the link, I think I'll be coming back to that site from time to time. My long time favorite dictionary is thefreedictionary.com, but with graft, for the first time the description was subpar.

Re: Elite Soccer’s Culture of Graft

#50

Post by pdpi »

dmos62 wrote: post #20
shellac wrote: post #11

In this article ‘graft’ means corruption or similar, rather than ‘hard work’. Slightly confusing.

Graft is a funny word. It seems to come from horticulture and means "to join or unite". Then it's used as a synonym for work, especially hard work, which doesn't have an obvious relation to the horticultural use. Then there's the corruption meaning, which is a metaphor of how a parasite forms a union with its host, I presume. So if you're being metaphoric, "graft" can be used for a harmonic union and an abusive union…

There’s more than you’d think. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:English_contranyms
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