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Iran to Launch State-Backed Cryptocurrency to Counter SWIFT and US Regulations

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Re: Iran to Launch State-Backed Cryptocurrency to Counter SWIFT and US Regulations

#41

Post by gammateam »

acdha wrote: post #18
mihaifm wrote: post #15

Honestly, Iranian banks have a better chance of wiring money abroad if they use Monero, but obviously it's not a solution the government will accept, because well, no control. If they decide to fork any existing cryptocurrency or create some kind of token, it's likely to be banned on exchanges. I don't see how they could pull this off.

The big problem for any existing system is volume: Iran has enough money that they’d dominate the real currency exchanges and once that happens the risks go up for everyone involved. Even the most ideologically committed cryptocurrency proponents are going to think twice about going to jail on behalf of a foreign power without compensation.

A measured approach would allow for this growth in a way that doesn't spook the non-sanctioned markets.

Monero used to traded for around 45 cents ($0.45) for about 2 years, it trades for $45 right now, your argument would have worked A LOT better then. Why is Monero $45 right now? For the obligatory devil's advocate response who will you blame: dark net markets, sanctioned countries, better user experience? All we have are correlations and these networks are working as intended, and have gotten a lot more hardened and resilient. So let it trade for $4,500 just because Iran has some money to move.

Re: Iran to Launch State-Backed Cryptocurrency to Counter SWIFT and US Regulations

#42

Post by gammateam »

chvid wrote: post #14

What are these things exactly (this and Venezuela's "petro")? Tokens on the eth blockchain? Something else?

Regarding Petro they supposedly launched on NEM about a year ago, but nobody can tell you the contract address. A lot of basics missing.

Re: Iran to Launch State-Backed Cryptocurrency to Counter SWIFT and US Regulations

#43

Post by qwerty456127 »

chvid wrote: post #14

What are these things exactly (this and Venezuela's "petro")? Tokens on the eth blockchain? Something else?

> Venezuela's "petro"

By the way, why wouldn't sanctioned countries including Venezuela, Iran, Russia (all the three trading oil) and others find some countries willing to partner with them and establish a common cryptocurrency? Wouldn't this make more economic sense than every country inventing a crypto of their own?

Re: Iran to Launch State-Backed Cryptocurrency to Counter SWIFT and US Regulations

#45

Post by Barrin92 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #35
wonderwonder wrote: post #34

For a sanctioned country to create its own crypto currency makes little sense. The west will just ban any use of that currency and they will be in the same boat as before except now they will have a bunch of useless digital tokens. If they want to be able to move money and the potential to purchase goods and services with it, they should use an existing, established crypto. Using something such as Monero/Zcash (pick…

> For a sanctioned country to create its own crypto currency makes little sense. The west will just ban any use of that currency Crypto advocates often make a big deal out of the idea that states cannot in practice effectively prevent or regulate use of crypto currency.

well sure because that's what crypto advocates are paid for. States can very easily take legal action against businesses that circumvent trade sanctions through crypto currency. And with businesses and institutional investors out of the window, it's uninteresting.

Re: Iran to Launch State-Backed Cryptocurrency to Counter SWIFT and US Regulations

#46

Post by acdha »

gammateam wrote: post #41
acdha wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big problem for any existing system is volume: Iran has enough money that they’d dominate the real currency exchanges and once that happens the risks go up for everyone involved. Even the most ideologically committed cryptocurrency proponents are going to think twice about going to jail on behalf of a foreign power without compensation.

A measured approach would allow for this growth in a way that doesn't spook the non-sanctioned markets. Monero used to traded for around 45 cents ($0.45) for about 2 years, it trades for $45 right now, your argument would have worked A LOT better then. Why is Monero $45 right now? For the obligatory devil's advocate response who will you blame: dark net markets, sanctioned countries, better user experience? All we ha…

The question is how much real money is entering or leaving the system, since that's what would matter here — if someone is trying to launder $1B it's probably going to be a big problem if the system is only exchanging $1M/day into stable currencies and the rest of the volume is speculation. Similarly, since there isn’t much base demand there simply might not be a sufficient volume of buyers on the other side of those transactions.

Then you get to the bigger problem: being involved in these activities has significant risks in any country which follows the sanctions. The authorities are going to want you to prove that you aren't involved in the illegal activity if you don't want to be charged with money laundering.

Re: Iran to Launch State-Backed Cryptocurrency to Counter SWIFT and US Regulations

#47

Post by gammateam »

acdha wrote: post #46
gammateam wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A measured approach would allow for this growth in a way that doesn't spook the non-sanctioned markets. Monero used to traded for around 45 cents ($0.45) for about 2 years, it trades for $45 right now, your argument would have worked A LOT better then. Why is Monero $45 right now? For the obligatory devil's advocate response who will you blame: dark net markets, sanctioned countries, better user experience? All we ha…

The question is how much real money is entering or leaving the system, since that's what would matter here — if someone is trying to launder $1B it's probably going to be a big problem if the system is only exchanging $1M/day into stable currencies and the rest of the volume is speculation. Similarly, since there isn’t much base demand there simply might not be a sufficient volume of buyers on the other side of those…

> The authorities are going to want you to prove that you aren't involved in the illegal activity if you don't want to be charged with money laundering.

The onus is on the government to determine an illicit origin for their charge of money laundering to stick. This is related to the US federal crime of Money Laundering, and not any other variation.

In the Monero system, receivers do not know the address of the sender. So, that's convenient.

Re: Iran to Launch State-Backed Cryptocurrency to Counter SWIFT and US Regulations

#48

Post by acdha »

gammateam wrote: post #47
acdha wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is how much real money is entering or leaving the system, since that's what would matter here — if someone is trying to launder $1B it's probably going to be a big problem if the system is only exchanging $1M/day into stable currencies and the rest of the volume is speculation. Similarly, since there isn’t much base demand there simply might not be a sufficient volume of buyers on the other side of those…

> The authorities are going to want you to prove that you aren't involved in the illegal activity if you don't want to be charged with money laundering. The onus is on the government to determine an illicit origin for their charge of money laundering to stick. This is related to the US federal crime of Money Laundering, and not any other variation. In the Monero system, receivers do not know the address of the sender…

US requires currency exchanges to make a strong identification for the customer in every transaction. Using Monero does not remove that requirement any more than using a suitcase of cash which just happened to show up in your office would.

That alone would be a federal crime and it almost certainly would be enough to get search warrants, etc. which would likely turn up evidence for other charges for anyone who is running an exchange while badly misinformed about the law. Anyone trying to be legit is going to steer clear of those hypothetical Iranian transactions, especially since the odds of being compromised in some other way are high even in the unlikely case that Monero can withstand a nation-state level adversary. For any significant volume – such as what we’re talking about – traffic analysis is going to get a lot of info and since it involves Iran you’d be betting that none of numerous highly-capable intelligence agencies have compromised another party who has a trace pointing at you.

Re: Iran to Launch State-Backed Cryptocurrency to Counter SWIFT and US Regulations

#49

Post by gammateam »

acdha wrote: post #48
gammateam wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The authorities are going to want you to prove that you aren't involved in the illegal activity if you don't want to be charged with money laundering. The onus is on the government to determine an illicit origin for their charge of money laundering to stick. This is related to the US federal crime of Money Laundering, and not any other variation. In the Monero system, receivers do not know the address of the sender…

US requires currency exchanges to make a strong identification for the customer in every transaction. Using Monero does not remove that requirement any more than using a suitcase of cash which just happened to show up in your office would. That alone would be a federal crime and it almost certainly would be enough to get search warrants, etc. which would likely turn up evidence for other charges for anyone who is run…

Yes but this would be a DIFFERENT crime which I made it extremely clear we aren't talking about

Nation states aside, the point you seem to be missing is that many people people are able to acquire goods and services directly with Monero without using an exchange. Merchants are not subject to the regulations that national currency exchanges are subject to and there is no framework to create this kind of prohibition right now.

Re: Iran to Launch State-Backed Cryptocurrency to Counter SWIFT and US Regulations

#50

Post by acdha »

gammateam wrote: post #49
acdha wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US requires currency exchanges to make a strong identification for the customer in every transaction. Using Monero does not remove that requirement any more than using a suitcase of cash which just happened to show up in your office would. That alone would be a federal crime and it almost certainly would be enough to get search warrants, etc. which would likely turn up evidence for other charges for anyone who is run…

Yes but this would be a DIFFERENT crime which I made it extremely clear we aren't talking about Nation states aside, the point you seem to be missing is that many people people are able to acquire goods and services directly with Monero without using an exchange. Merchants are not subject to the regulations that national currency exchanges are subject to and there is no framework to create this kind of prohibition ri…

> Nation states aside, the point you seem to be missing is that many people people are able to acquire goods and services directly with Monero

Which is true for sufficiently small definitions of “many” but not what this thread was about. If you’re going to handwave about how being charged under financial reporting rules designed to prevent money laundering is a completely different crime then you have to acknowledge that there are reasons why a system which is adequate for a few people making occasional purchases will have big problems scaling up to the level of a nation laundering money to get around sanctions.

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