Jackie Chan, though, is an apologist for the Mainland government, and even suggested that Taiwan, perhaps (as of now) the only Chinese-speaking democracy, has “too much freedom.”
This is directly quoted in the linked article.
The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan
41–50 of 254 posts
Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
We know the answer: Jackie thinks it was worth it. I'm unconvinced... as much as I like him and I'm glad he can enjoy his success. Yes, the children in Africa who become slaves or child soldiers and end up dead have it worse. I'm not sure what lesson we can draw from that :)
Very confused as to what you're trying to say
I don't think I'm trying to say something difficult. I'm replying to the post above mine:
1- "I suppose you'd have to ask him if he'd rather have lived a normal life": we don't need to ask Jackie Chan what he thinks, because he already answered in interviews: he thinks his life was worth it. That's sort of the point of the article.
2- "kids in Africa become slaves or child soldiers and end up dead.": yes, some kids have it worse than Jackie Chan's life. So?
Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan
#43The author doesn't want to treat Chan's insistence on his account being an inspirational one and just wants to see it as sad. I'm reminded of a Quora answer by a guy who loved fighting, one phrase he used stuck out at me. "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." You can't push your body to its very limits without getting injured. Planning and preparing for it is not sad, it's smart. Chan's account should be…
I mean, sure, it would be way better if Hong Kong weren't the colonial hell-hole it was. In what sense is Hong Kong a colonial hell-hole? (Take this not as a challenge, but as a question from someone who is unfamiliar with the idea.) Is there an underclass trapped there? Do the people in it feel trapped?
I am glad you used the word trapped - https://www.nationalgeographic.com/photography/proof/2017/07...
Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan
#44The author doesn't want to treat Chan's insistence on his account being an inspirational one and just wants to see it as sad. I'm reminded of a Quora answer by a guy who loved fighting, one phrase he used stuck out at me. "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." You can't push your body to its very limits without getting injured. Planning and preparing for it is not sad, it's smart. Chan's account should be…
I've often heard of BUDS Navy Seal training that its not IF you break a bone or get hurt its WHEN. I agree it takes a certain personality.
Anyone who thinks you can go through BUDS/RASP/RIP/Q-Course/whatever injured and "fight through it" is a delusional fanboy. The reality is that it has very little to do with willpower and everything to do with your physical condition before the course and your genetic potential.
If you get hurt, you are out, and you are checking gates for 12 hours a day or go regular infantry. Yes, there are second chances, but that's another story.
Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
> He certainly succeeded, but at what cost? The cost would be paid by Chan regardless of whether he became rich and famous. Specifically, he did not have a choice for being a slave in the Peking Opera house, so I'm not sure what point you and the author are trying to make. Paraphrasing Obama, Chan has embraced the burden of his past without becoming and staying a victim of it. Jackie Chan has taken responsibility for…
> The cost would be paid by Chan regardless of whether he became rich and famous I'm not sure. Maybe he wouldn't have had to be sold as an indentured servant, get beaten, be deprived of an education, and sleep on a mattress soiled with piss. Or maybe he would have died of starvation, who knows? Or maybe he would have moved with his parents to Australia, where the article mentions they went. It's definitely worth thin…
Your opinion seems to echo the author's so it was an obvious question, though I only expected to hear yours
> Maybe he wouldn't have had to be sold as an indentured servant,
Again, that wasn't his choice. There was no choice for Jackie Chan. That was his parents' choice. The only choice Jackie had is to either to focus on attaining his definition of success, while acknowledging the past; or to let the obsession of the past overtake his life and wallow in self pity. Where we disagree is that I feel the former choice is the healthier one.
> Again, I can't answer for the author, but I can think of a few things Chan could do: help prevent a similar hard childhood for current kids. Speak out. Join an advocacy group.
Yes like many other celebrities, Jackie Chan has charitable efforts for children and other causes. I don't disagree, but neither you nor the author mentioned this until now which made your argument seem pointless.
> Maybe raise awareness of how dire the situation for many families was in colonial Hong Kong.
That was probably the point of recounting his hardship while at the peking opera. Colonial HK and the peking opera, at least in its previous form, also do not exist anymore.
> but arguing there's only despair and hopeless seems disingenuous to me
That wasn't my argument. My point was that it seemed that you and the author feel that Jackie Chan did not obsess enough about the sadness and pain of his early life. I felt what both you and the author were advocating was senseless.
Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Rush Hour 1 through 3 have long been some of my favourite movies! If we're getting into Jackie Chan movies, though, one cannot leave out Drunken Master
A note of clarification: Drunken Master is pretty good! Drunken Master II (re-released in slightly edited form as "Legend of the Drunken Master" in the US) is the one that's typically regarded as a bona-fide classic masterpiece.
Thanks for clarifying!
I had to look it up, but I'm definitely referring to the first one in this case. I don't even think I've seen the second one!
Guess it's going on the list
Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
> instead chooses to focus on the end result, his success as an adult. Most people have been through various levels of shit[0] through their lives. I believe one should acknowledge your problems but certainly not dwell on them and should put your energy and drive into the good times. [0]Trying to think of a better word, but that covers it quite well I think.
I'm not the author but the main gist is that Jackie doesn't want to acknowledge his past hardships, and is unwilling to analyze whether they were justified or not. The author calls it his "blindspot". I'm not sure it's healthy.
Jackie lived his experiences. This author is, to the best of my knowledge, basically just some guy with a website byline. (Presumably he's had some sort of hardships in life, because nobody escapes unscathed, but I doubt they compare to Jackie's.) I'm not sure the author has all that much moral standing or skin in the game to make me care much about his opinion of Jackie Chan's life.
He's welcome to it. I just don't see it as anywhere near as interesting.
Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
The lack of respect Chan gets in the west is a travesty IMO. His fight choreography is rooted in the traditions Chinese opera while being constantly fresh, playful and imaginative. He shows absolute technical mastery, but there is always a sense of child-like joy underpinning that mastery. The fact that his films are often regarded as frivolous and lightweight says something profound about what is valued in our cultu…
Doesn't he do a lot of frivolous and light-hearted movies though -- I'm a huge fan. Take a movie like "Who am I", it's like Johnny English meets Drunken Master. "Kung Fu" films to me always have a notion of slapstick, even the beautiful ones like House of Flying Daggers; Chan's background in Opera I imagine helps to fulfill that element of slightly ludicrous spectacle (at least if Chinese opera has any similarity to…
I don't really count films he did after Rumble in the Bronx as part of his oeuvre, he effectively retired from doing the kind of physical performances that made him great after 1995. By the time he made his debut in Hollywood his body was a little too broken to keep up the routine.
Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan
#49Here’s a really cool video breaking down exactly how Jackie sets up his stunt-action-comedy. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PCtIaM_GQ One thing that was particular interesting to me is how the setup always starts with him at an extreme disadvantage: no shoes, tied to a chair, hanging upside down, etc. I never noticed it before and it’s exactly what makes his action so enjoyable to watch. (The YouTube Channel is call…
I read similar things about Mad Max: Fury Road. Basically that they did all the stunts for real, and then edit it with still camera shots, and with a real sense of rhythm. IMO that worked absolutely fantastically, and I hope other films catch on. https://www.provideocoalition.com/art-cut-margaret-sixel-edi...
loved the article. Appreciate the link
Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not demeaning and cruel to his fellow countrymen. They are what sustain him. Chan is somewhat popular in the West, but he's a veritable god in the East, like Manny Pacquiao is to Filipinos. You are the one demeaning the people there. Chan is the one inspiring them. It's silly to think that everybody in Hong Kong is going to compare themselves to Jackie Chan and lament that they won't be able to do what he does.…
I think what the previous commenter was reacting to in your post was not your defense of Chan an his memoir as inspirational, per se, but rather the specific phrase "If he can do it anyone can" as ignoring the fact that Chan -- and celebrities like him -- are extreme outliers, and extremely lucky for their success. Yes, Chan worked his ass off. But to have the success he did, he also had to have an insane amount of l…
This is why I added the daughters and princesses aside. The people of Hong Kong are not going to use Chan's example to try to be Jackie Chan. That's not the point. They're going to look carefully at their hero and decide that certain traits of his, like extreme courage and willingness to be brave, and choose to adopt them, just like a child does with their heroes.
If you or I went over to Hong Kong, and told them to work hard and they'll succeed, then get in my private jet and fly back to the US, they'd just roll their eyes. But Jackie Chan is one of them. He understands the culture and the challenges. All famous people do for their audiences.