Disruption for Thee, But Not for Me • Hacker News Board

Re: Disruption for Thee, But Not for Me

#41

Post by gerbilly » Wed, Jan 09, 2019, 1:53 PM UTC

mprev wrote: post #22

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #11

This article is a good time to plug LibreTaxi: "Free and open source alternative to Uber/Lyft connecting passengers and drivers. LibreTaxi makes ridesharing affordable by getting rid of the third party between passengers and drivers. Negotiate the price before the ride is confirmed, pay cash upon arrival. 1-minute hiring for all drivers." https://libretaxi.org/

Cool. I have to say, though, that not having to negotiate a price is a key benefit of Uber. The price is the price, no quibbling, no bait and switch. Similarly, paying by cash feels like a step back.

In all friendliness let me offer a counterpoint to your post:

You guys are so funny! Afraid of negotiating a price? Really?

Perhaps it's time we became grown ups?

To me uber is just an extension of the habit of calling your parents to pick you up after soccer practise.

Also soon there won't be any cash at all, and so no anonymity in any financial transaction, thanks for promoting that!

Re: Disruption for Thee, But Not for Me

#42

Post by candiodari » Wed, Jan 09, 2019, 1:56 PM UTC

cs702 wrote: post #9

The main challenge to successful (i.e., market-dominating) cooperatively-owned platforms like the ones Cory wants is that usually there are no incentives that motivate individuals to dedicate their lives and souls in the creation, launching, running, and perpetual improvement of such platforms for the benefit of others. The exceptions, including successful projects like GNU and Linux, tend to be led by rather unique…

> no incentives that motivate individuals to dedicate their lives and souls in the creation, launching, running, and perpetual improvement of such platforms for the benefit of others.

Except this is not just a problem with the owners (and to some extent you are wrong, there are CEOs motivated by that, they still by and large fail).

Because ...

There are no workers motivated like that either. People do not want this.

In the vast majority of businesses, the CEO is the only one that cares about anything more than next month's pay check. Even if there are a few exceptions among the employees they remain big exceptions.

This sort of business can't work unless CEO and everybody else cares about the mission of the company. And there are no such people.

Re: Disruption for Thee, But Not for Me

#43

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 09, 2019, 1:59 PM UTC

IWeldMelons wrote: post #19

geofft wrote: post #2

The closest thing we have to a meta-service is Meta-Elsevier, more popularly known as Sci-Hub, which works so well simply because it doesn't care about legality. It's hosted outside the US on a slowly changing list of TLDs, and so it doesn't have to worry about any form of copyright law, not just the DMCA. I think if you wanted to build more services like this, you'd have to go this approach: instead of building an a…

Sci-Hub is Kazakhstani creation actually.

[deleted]

Re: Disruption for Thee, But Not for Me

#44

Post by chrisseaton » Wed, Jan 09, 2019, 2:01 PM UTC

gerbilly wrote: post #41

mprev wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool. I have to say, though, that not having to negotiate a price is a key benefit of Uber. The price is the price, no quibbling, no bait and switch. Similarly, paying by cash feels like a step back.

In all friendliness let me offer a counterpoint to your post: You guys are so funny! Afraid of negotiating a price? Really? Perhaps it's time we became grown ups? To me uber is just an extension of the habit of calling your parents to pick you up after soccer practise. Also soon there won't be any cash at all, and so no anonymity in any financial transaction, thanks for promoting that!

> Afraid of negotiating a price? Really?

I'm not afraid of it - I'm just at a disadvantage in terms of information. When I fly into some random city where I don't know anything about what a normal taxi fare is I can't negotiate can I?

It's also just something I don't want to do - I don't want to have a stand-up argument with someone about money, thanks. I also don't want to unblock a toilet but that doesn't mean I'm somehow afraid of it.

But some people are afraid of a negotiation, yes. A vulnerable person, stuck somewhere alone in the dark getting into a belligerent argument with a taxi driver could be an extremely frightening experience.

Taxis also requires you to carry physical cash, which again makes you vulnerable - to robbery. And again that probably is much more of a concern to people more vulnerable than you.

> To me uber is just an extension of the habit of calling your parents to pick you up after soccer practise.

Good? That was a great system when I was a child. It was safe, friendly and didn't involve any cash. If we can replicate the same great system for independent adults that's fantastic.

Re: Disruption for Thee, But Not for Me

#45

Post by gerbilly » Wed, Jan 09, 2019, 2:10 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #44

gerbilly wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all friendliness let me offer a counterpoint to your post: You guys are so funny! Afraid of negotiating a price? Really? Perhaps it's time we became grown ups? To me uber is just an extension of the habit of calling your parents to pick you up after soccer practise. Also soon there won't be any cash at all, and so no anonymity in any financial transaction, thanks for promoting that!

> Afraid of negotiating a price? Really? I'm not afraid of it - I'm just at a disadvantage in terms of information. When I fly into some random city where I don't know anything about what a normal taxi fare is I can't negotiate can I? It's also just something I don't want to do - I don't want to have a stand-up argument with someone about money, thanks. I also don't want to unblock a toilet but that doesn't mean I'm…

> I don't want to have a stand-up argument with someone about money, thanks.

Why not? It's not so bad. I prefer to negotiate my own contracts. To rely on some third party to do so is infantilizing.

If I got into the habit of avoiding stuff like that, I wouldn't be able to travel and live like a local. You know when I travel it's sans apps. I use paper maps road signs and no GPS, I take local cabs, even collective cabs. It's never been a problem, and asking people for help has led to much better travel experiences.

I guess you could say I prefer full contact travel.

> Good? That was a great system when I was a child. It was safe, friendly and didn't involve any cash. If we can replicate the same great system for independent adults that's fantastic.

Except that now the 'parent' isn't a benevolent person with your best interests at heart, it's uber. Why hand all that power over to an unelected, unethical company?

And like i said above, such a system is inherently paternalistic, and infantilizes everyone.

(I'm not attacking you personally of course, it's just that your post perfectly exemplifies an attitude that I have a passionate counterargument for.)

Re: Disruption for Thee, But Not for Me

#46

Post by defertoreptar » Wed, Jan 09, 2019, 2:16 PM UTC

gerbilly wrote: post #41

mprev wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool. I have to say, though, that not having to negotiate a price is a key benefit of Uber. The price is the price, no quibbling, no bait and switch. Similarly, paying by cash feels like a step back.

In all friendliness let me offer a counterpoint to your post: You guys are so funny! Afraid of negotiating a price? Really? Perhaps it's time we became grown ups? To me uber is just an extension of the habit of calling your parents to pick you up after soccer practise. Also soon there won't be any cash at all, and so no anonymity in any financial transaction, thanks for promoting that!

What exactly is the counterpoint here?

Re: Disruption for Thee, But Not for Me

#47

Post by VSerge » Wed, Jan 09, 2019, 2:16 PM UTC

lkdjjdjjjdskjd wrote: post #30

If they had such a great coop going, I don't understand why they went back to Lyft/Uber?

Found this piece in which Lyft boasts that they had more driver upon coming back to Austin, and where RideAustin states that their numbers have dropped from 50k weekly rides to 20k rides, which is their minimum number to remain relevant.

Drivers probably signed up again with Lyft/Uber simply because these apps had again a significant volume of business to offer.

Also, I saw on reddit that RideAustin had closed its onboarding office, which seems like the best way to send drivers to their competitors.

http://austin.culturemap.com/news/innovation/07-27-17-ride-s...

Re: Disruption for Thee, But Not for Me

#48

Post by cribbles » Wed, Jan 09, 2019, 2:17 PM UTC

jelling wrote: post #35

Doctorow, per usual, writes with the certainty of an out of shape sportswriter playing Monday morning quarterback. He just doesn't know what he's talking about. For example, he says "Uber...allows them to illegally discriminate against people with disabilities" Does he really not know the long history of cab drivers not stopping for black passengers? This has been frontpage news on multiple occasions, most famously w…

The racist cab pickup issue occurred to me too, but it’s not in conflict with his overall argument. Doctorow allows that the ride hailing app experience (not to be mistaken with to the “ride sharing” business model) is, in most respects, a foundational improvement upon the old taxi pickup experience. This is not mutually exclusive with the claim that Uber, et al.’s business practices (i.e. circumvention of any and all possible tax and labor laws) introduce a unique set of problems for riders and drivers alike.

Re: Disruption for Thee, But Not for Me

#49

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 09, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

jelling wrote: post #35

Doctorow, per usual, writes with the certainty of an out of shape sportswriter playing Monday morning quarterback. He just doesn't know what he's talking about. For example, he says "Uber...allows them to illegally discriminate against people with disabilities" Does he really not know the long history of cab drivers not stopping for black passengers? This has been frontpage news on multiple occasions, most famously w…

[deleted]

Re: Disruption for Thee, But Not for Me

#50

Post by chrisseaton » Wed, Jan 09, 2019, 2:20 PM UTC

gerbilly wrote: post #45

chrisseaton wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Afraid of negotiating a price? Really? I'm not afraid of it - I'm just at a disadvantage in terms of information. When I fly into some random city where I don't know anything about what a normal taxi fare is I can't negotiate can I? It's also just something I don't want to do - I don't want to have a stand-up argument with someone about money, thanks. I also don't want to unblock a toilet but that doesn't mean I'm…

> I don't want to have a stand-up argument with someone about money, thanks. Why not? It's not so bad. I prefer to negotiate my own contracts. To rely on some third party to do so is infantilizing. If I got into the habit of avoiding stuff like that, I wouldn't be able to travel and live like a local. You know when I travel it's sans apps. I use paper maps road signs and no GPS, I take local cabs, even collective cab…

It sounds like you want to enjoy talking to people, experiencing a culture of negotiation, taking part in local services, handle local money.

I just want to get from A to B with as little hassle as possible so I can concentrate on things I think actually matter.