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Lies We Tell Kids

paulgraham.com

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Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#41

Post by astine »

mynameishere wrote: post #34
brlewis wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Grandma went to heaven" is not falsifiable. I'd prefer keeping this discussion focused on falsifiable lies. Let those of us who believe in the resurrection of Jesus, the coming of the semantic web, or other supernatural phenomena believe what we want to believe.

When something is falsifiable, that means it is suitable for examination by science. When something is not falsifiable it should be considered false, in most contexts.

I've always felt that that was an article of faith.

Ultimately, nothing is falsifiable because you have to make certain assumptions just to function.To truly throw out all assumptions would be to embrace solipsism. All that are left are various arbitrary criteria for belief.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#42

Post by Alex3917 »

wallflower wrote: post #7

"Probably the biggest lie told in schools, though, is that the way to succeed is through following "the rules." In fact most such rules are just hacks to manage large groups efficiently." Reminds me of something Seth Godin (?) once said - that the whole purpose of school is to institutionalize mediocrity

The main tool used by schools to manage large groups is competition. Whenever you get two or more people to compete then they have to be, by definition, doing the same thing. The rest of the rules are only there to cover the corner cases that competition misses.

Similarly, no one who is the best at something can ever, by definition, push the human race forward. Because to be the best at something means you have to be, by definition, doing the same thing as everyone else. C.f. here:

http://reddit.com/info/14l86/comments/c14o44

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#43

Post by scott_s »

Protecting kids might be one of the reasons that people move to suburbia, but it's not the only reason. People like living in large houses and having land. That's exorbitantly expensive in the city for middle class families.

I also grew up in the suburbs, and I experienced the boredom pg talked about. There was nothing for me and my friends to do. I remember thinking that living in an urban environment would be unthinkably exotic.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#44

Post by hugh »

sofal wrote: post #8

Am I the only one here who disagrees almost completely with everything that is said? I don't mean to be disrespectful or offensive here. I'm just trying to get a feel for whether or not I'm the outcast in this corner of the Web.

Can you be more specific about what you're disagreeing with?

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#45

Post by shawndrost »

sofal wrote: post #8

Am I the only one here who disagrees almost completely with everything that is said? I don't mean to be disrespectful or offensive here. I'm just trying to get a feel for whether or not I'm the outcast in this corner of the Web.

What do you disagree with, and why? Dissent is fun to read about.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#46

Post by brlewis »

mynameishere wrote: post #34
brlewis wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Grandma went to heaven" is not falsifiable. I'd prefer keeping this discussion focused on falsifiable lies. Let those of us who believe in the resurrection of Jesus, the coming of the semantic web, or other supernatural phenomena believe what we want to believe.

When something is falsifiable, that means it is suitable for examination by science. When something is not falsifiable it should be considered false, in most contexts.

"When something is not falsifiable it should be considered false, in most contexts."

Is the above sentence falsifiable? How do you examine the "should be" question with science?

If it is not falsifiable, should it be considered false, or is it an exception? How do you pick exceptions?

My two assertions about your sentence: (1) It is not falsifiable. (2) You consider it very useful.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#47

Post by [deleted] »

mynameishere wrote: post #10
dgabriel wrote: post #4

My least favorite pg essay. It's too easy to generalize about parenting, and so little of this essay applies to me. 1. Raising a kid in the city, and quite happily. 2. No prohibitions on swears in my house. Just at Grandma's, and only because it would offend her, not because swearing is inherently bad. 3. He goes to a school where they only teach you how to read, write, and do basic math. Everything else is a child-l…

Turkeys are not very smart, and have no concept of "wanting to die." Turkeys are very smart birds and their behavior is very finely geared around not dying.

[deleted]

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#48

Post by scott_s »

dgabriel wrote: post #39
mynameishere wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkeys are not very smart, and have no concept of "wanting to die." Turkeys are very smart birds and their behavior is very finely geared around not dying.

Exactly. There aren't suicidal turkeys; they get slaughtered and cleaned and cooked. Why is that so horrifying for a child?

I think children tend to project their own concept of being alive onto other creatures. Basically, they assume the turkey is, in some way, like them.

While I think a turkey clearly does not have the same understanding of mortality that we do, I also think that they clearly don't want to die. Basic survival is a common trait of any successful species. The concept of want is different, though, since they have a much more primitive type of consciousness.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#49

Post by mrtron »

dgabriel wrote: post #39
mynameishere wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkeys are not very smart, and have no concept of "wanting to die." Turkeys are very smart birds and their behavior is very finely geared around not dying.

Exactly. There aren't suicidal turkeys; they get slaughtered and cleaned and cooked. Why is that so horrifying for a child?

Growing up in a farming community, death was common and not hidden from children. The more horrific thing for me as a kid was discovering:

"Today’s domesticated turkeys are anatomically manipulated to be so heavy and large breasted, because breast meat is the most desirable and therefore commands the best price, that they are now incapable of breeding naturally."

So, there are people who have to perform this artificially for the males and then for the females. In fact, since turkeys are now raised in mega-farms, there are people with this as their career.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#50

Post by staunch »

sofal wrote: post #8

Am I the only one here who disagrees almost completely with everything that is said? I don't mean to be disrespectful or offensive here. I'm just trying to get a feel for whether or not I'm the outcast in this corner of the Web.

Given the nature of this essay I'm sure almost everyone disagrees with some aspects of it. The more interesting question is what you disagree with and why?

With an essay like this I think the problem is that most people will think that their knowledge of specific exceptions invalidate the generalized situation described.

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