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Linux 5.0-rc1

lore.kernel.org

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Re: Linux 5.0-rc1

#41

Post by lostmsu »

c256 wrote: post #37
lostmsu wrote: post #34

IMHO, Linux is failing us, end users. It works great for servers, I can give it that. There it mostly runs on a very narrow set of hardware, or just VMs. It is stable and performant, and customizable. But not on consumer devices. I'd like to use it eventually, but the state of driver support is still abysmal. Android phones lose support after a couple of years, and on desktop/laptops there are numerous problems too.…

I don’t know if you realize it, but your complaint is “hardware vendors change things too frequently”. Kernel hackers don’t make up the need to do extra work for hardware support just for kicks. Yes, the hits everyone: Windows loses support for old hardware much faster than it used to. Even the closed-ecosystem of OSX/macosx/macOS leaves hardware behind these days. Mobile phone hardware changes so frequently that you…

Final point. A bit of a parallel/analogue.

The binary compatibility came, and package maintainers rejoiced. Finally, they did not have to make a package for each distribution separately, and could get to actually improving the contents of the packages themselves.

The docker came, and the ops and admins rejoiced. Finally, they are able to build a giant web app, and deploy it anywhere with that tiny container daemon, even on Windows. So they can actually focus on improving their web apps instead of wasting Saturday nights tweaking configurations.

When the stable driver API comes, the driver developers will rejoice.

Re: Linux 5.0-rc1

#42

Post by andrewshadura »

irq wrote: post #14
azhenley wrote: post #2

I went to see what the big changes were to justify a new major version number and saw: “The numbering change is not indicative of anything special. If you want to have an official reason, it's that I ran out of fingers and toes to count on, so 4.21 became 5.0” I laughed out loud.

OK so Linus, like most, has 10 fingers and 10 toes: totaling 20.. Yet 4.21 was already assigned. What was the last thing he counted on? Guesses below.

I believe most people, Linus included, have 8 fingers and 2 thumbs, making it 10 digits in total.

Re: Linux 5.0-rc1

#43

Post by maxnoe »

lostmsu wrote: post #39
c256 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know if you realize it, but your complaint is “hardware vendors change things too frequently”. Kernel hackers don’t make up the need to do extra work for hardware support just for kicks. Yes, the hits everyone: Windows loses support for old hardware much faster than it used to. Even the closed-ecosystem of OSX/macosx/macOS leaves hardware behind these days. Mobile phone hardware changes so frequently that you…

Then again, how is the need to upstream drivers affecting small businesses doing hardware? Forget AMD, they might (arguably) find resources to do the clean-up. But mom, who learned a bit of programming to make a driver for Mom&Pop's Pool Acidity Sensor will never be able to upstream. So small business needs it even more. Don't you think that is a good reason on its own?

Then, is getting a driver upstreamed for linux really harder than getting it trusted/signed for Windows or macOS?

Re: Linux 5.0-rc1

#44

Post by craftyguy »

azhenley wrote: post #2

I went to see what the big changes were to justify a new major version number and saw: “The numbering change is not indicative of anything special. If you want to have an official reason, it's that I ran out of fingers and toes to count on, so 4.21 became 5.0” I laughed out loud.

The kernel versioning (as of 3.0) has always been arbitrary. Go wild.

Re: Linux 5.0-rc1

#45

Post by tsukikage »

andrewshadura wrote: post #42
irq wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK so Linus, like most, has 10 fingers and 10 toes: totaling 20.. Yet 4.21 was already assigned. What was the last thing he counted on? Guesses below.

I believe most people, Linus included, have 8 fingers and 2 thumbs, making it 10 digits in total.

...but you can count to 256 on 8 fingers...

Re: Linux 5.0-rc1

#46

Post by nailer »

IloveHN84 wrote: post #35

I'm still contrary to all those drivers additions that are being made, slowing the compile time. Why don't they get rid of old drivers (say, prior to 2000)? It would make the kernel slimmer for sure. They could made optional and one has to self compile the kernel to enable them

Why are you building modules you don't use?

The kernel seems to be the most half understood part of Linux. Not picking on you specifically, it's actually super common to think:

- More drivers means slower build times

- To add a driver you need to rebuild a kernel

Both of which are wrong and have been wrong for a decade (nearly two!).

Re: Linux 5.0-rc1

#48

Post by sys_64738 »

zapzupnz wrote: post #23
sys_64738 wrote: post #8

Maybe the kernel should switch to Chrome style versioning? It would solve this dilemma.

Is it really a 'dilemma' though? Basically, a project can set the version numbers how they want. They don't need to justify the change. So long as they and others can refer to each release by a simple and easily identifiable number or moniker, it really makes no difference if it's 5.0 or 4.22. In the end, the Linux kernel is such a big project that there's really no reason to single out any single or a set of changes…

Versioning isn't just about the practical software build. The version is used to describe differences to non-tech PMs.

A PM's eyes will glaze over when you talk 4.22 V 4.16, but you mention v22 versus v22 and then they 'get it'.

That's why a Chrome style versioning has value.

Re: Linux 5.0-rc1

#49

Post by mricon »

diminish wrote: post #28

Newer projects have quick version bumps after the success of Chrome's accelerated versioning approach. But for software deeper in solutions, fast version changes appear confusing. I like Apache, nginx with very small bumps. Most newer JS frameworks live fast and die quick. It's also very confusing for developers to decide to jump to newer versions. Expecting 11.20 version around 2037.

Version 12.0 will be out shortly after, around 1970.

Re: Linux 5.0-rc1

#50

Post by imtringued »

lostmsu wrote: post #34

IMHO, Linux is failing us, end users. It works great for servers, I can give it that. There it mostly runs on a very narrow set of hardware, or just VMs. It is stable and performant, and customizable. But not on consumer devices. I'd like to use it eventually, but the state of driver support is still abysmal. Android phones lose support after a couple of years, and on desktop/laptops there are numerous problems too.…

Why should vendors care? Even Qualcomm outright admitted that they prefer to "ship it and drop it" rather than keep supporting old devices.
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