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One year into legal pot sales California doesn’t have expected bustling industry

latimes.com

41–50 of 170 posts

Re: One year into legal pot sales California doesn’t have expected bustling industry

#41

For perspective Colorado has 549 retail establishments and 574 medical establishments (although many overlap) while having ~3/20 the population of California. While obviously Colorado has had retail cannabis since 2012/13, both states have areas strongly for and strongly against legalization. Considering that the cities that do allow rec cannabis include Los Angeles, Oakland, San Francisco and San Diego, the number o…

Reporter from CO here. I think this is the crux of the matter. If the points about a strong underground market in the article are true, it's (IMO) due to a weakened attempt at decriminalization. Very much like bittorrents before netflix/prime were widely available with large catalogs. Here in Sunny CO, the prop was a Constitutional Amendment , guaranteeing the right of each state citizen to grow and possess their own…

Bad roads have nothing to do with pot taxes, it has everything to do with local priorities.

Re: One year into legal pot sales California doesn’t have expected bustling industry

#42
post #35

Maybe this article overstated things and someone will clear it up in the comments but that was painful to read. I live in Vancouver and weed's been officially legal throughout the Canada for several weeks now. It's still relatively new but nothing noticeable has changed aside from fewer people discussing such a frivilous and previously mishandled issue. It's not perfect but far, far, far better than strict prohibitio…

>It's not perfect but far, far, far better than strict prohibition with draconian sentencing laws. I thought you couldn't even be fined if carrying only enough for personal use.

You could....just most jurisdictions did not bother.

Re: One year into legal pot sales California doesn’t have expected bustling industry

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the concern is essentially about the precedent it sets. If you start questioning the logic of criminalizing cannabis, what's next on the list? That's the fear driving a lot of the reactionary opposition to a lot of things these days, and I think especially in the tech industry we have to remember that a lot of people don't have our appetite for risk. Personally I think we as a society have demonstrated a con…

"A lot of the concern is essentially about the precedent it sets. If you start questioning the logic of criminalizing cannabis, what's next on the list?" Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. It's ironic that for so many Americans the idea that people should be allowed to make their own choices would be such a tough sell...

"It's ironic that for so many Americans the idea that people should be allowed to make their own choices would be such a tough sell..." Good point, if you are not allowed to put something into your own body do you really have freedom?

Re: One year into legal pot sales California doesn’t have expected bustling industry

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What bothers me the most about this story is how marijuana is supposedly 'legal' yet some locals seem Hell-bent on treating it like an illegal and necessarily dangerous. It is still illegal at the federal level. There is nothing that stops the federal US government from throwing someone in jail for growing / transporting / using / processing payment for marijuana. I cannot think of anything else that is illegal at…

"There is nothing that stops the federal US government from throwing someone in jail for growing / transporting / using / processing payment for marijuana." I always wondered about that. Has there been any chatter about someone trying to get a federal court to nullify the law? I have no idea how that can work.

On what grounds? It was already conclusively decided in Gonzales vs Raich.

Re: One year into legal pot sales California doesn’t have expected bustling industry

#45

Maybe this article overstated things and someone will clear it up in the comments but that was painful to read. I live in Vancouver and weed's been officially legal throughout the Canada for several weeks now. It's still relatively new but nothing noticeable has changed aside from fewer people discussing such a frivilous and previously mishandled issue. It's not perfect but far, far, far better than strict prohibitio…

> What bothers me the most about this story is how marijuana is supposedly 'legal' yet some locals seem Hell-bent on treating it like an illegal and necessarily dangerous. It is still illegal at the federal level. There is nothing that stops the federal US government from throwing someone in jail for growing / transporting / using / processing payment for marijuana. I cannot think of anything else that is illegal at…

You are right it is an outlier and some would say not ideal. It is transparently a breakdown of rule of law into realpolitik given constraints and the redundant levels of powers - from what is fundamentally bad law and consistent failure to respond to facts on the ground. It brings to mind the old bit of legal philosophy about unenforceable laws breeding contempt for the law in general.

The Federal government can technically roll up and enforce the laws federally at any location they please but they don't have the budget or manpower for it. Unfunded mandates can't be enforced upon the lower levels of enforcement and they depend upon them for cooperation. They could technically have thrown the bulk of their enforcement budget into an early adopter but that would be playing whack-a-mole as others could crop up and openly defy them while they are busy there - all while 49 other states are complaining about there being way better uses of their resources than replacing every vice squad in California.

The federal government caused the problem in the first place in their adamant refusal to acknowledge reality with Schedule 1 classification - not just in assigning it to marijuana which trivially has medical uses but in that the very category is a tautology. We don't know if something has medicinal use until we try it in every application. For all we know even something horrific like krododil may be very good chemotherapy for treating specific kinds of tumors. Weaning off of heroin may well be the best approach to beating addiction - it is already accepted for nicotine in general practice! The specifics don't matter so much as the general point that Schedule 1's very existence is an outright tautology and illogical dogma.

They could have avoided the massive backlash and much of legalization movement's momentum being a serious thing by making Marijuana schedule 2. This isn't even something radical, not even decades ago - you have been able to find cocaine in ENT applications throughout the country perfectly legally given that there really is no better substance despite the known downsides.

The whole thing is fundamentally a failure state on the law. It is technically a solution in that it prevents enforcement of bad laws but it really highlights the systemic dysfunction and creates greater inconsistency. It is a matter of debate if being able to have this is a good thing or not.

I can think of one similar issue as well however that is even lower. The Sanctuary City "issue" (an emergent solution that some don't like) is a similar disconnect of high-level dogma colliding with and failing to respond to low-level reality - any significant urban police force knows they would have to be extremely stupid to have a zero-tolerance deportation policy when they depend upon the population for witnesses and crime reporting. It is beyond a matter of even demagogic politics locally while many above consider its state unacceptable.

TL;DR version - the law refused to bend so it broke instead.

Re: One year into legal pot sales California doesn’t have expected bustling industry

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reporter from CO here. I think this is the crux of the matter. If the points about a strong underground market in the article are true, it's (IMO) due to a weakened attempt at decriminalization. Very much like bittorrents before netflix/prime were widely available with large catalogs. Here in Sunny CO, the prop was a Constitutional Amendment , guaranteeing the right of each state citizen to grow and possess their own…

Bad roads have nothing to do with pot taxes, it has everything to do with local priorities.

It does have something to do with it, at least in the reflective case where surplus $$ allows street repair projects (among other things)

Re: One year into legal pot sales California doesn’t have expected bustling industry

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reporter from CO here. I think this is the crux of the matter. If the points about a strong underground market in the article are true, it's (IMO) due to a weakened attempt at decriminalization. Very much like bittorrents before netflix/prime were widely available with large catalogs. Here in Sunny CO, the prop was a Constitutional Amendment , guaranteeing the right of each state citizen to grow and possess their own…

There are a lot more cities than Colorado Springs that don’t allow retail including many of the surrounding Denver cities.

Correct and acknowledged in my comment, good call.

Re: One year into legal pot sales California doesn’t have expected bustling industry

#49

Maybe this article overstated things and someone will clear it up in the comments but that was painful to read. I live in Vancouver and weed's been officially legal throughout the Canada for several weeks now. It's still relatively new but nothing noticeable has changed aside from fewer people discussing such a frivilous and previously mishandled issue. It's not perfect but far, far, far better than strict prohibitio…

Some people don't want a shop next to them. The stench is horrid, and the kind of people that loiter around them are the last people you want near your house.

Legalizing a stupid and shitty practice because society doesn't want to enforce it doesn't make it any less stupid or shitty.

Re: One year into legal pot sales California doesn’t have expected bustling industry

#50
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

38% tax when sold legally in the local market. Black-market local sales and exports still don’t raise much tax revenue.

The total tax amount in San Francisco is about 25%, nowhere close to 38%. Where did you get that number?

> Montes, who received his city and state licenses in January, says his business faces a 15% state excise tax, a 10% recreational marijuana tax by the city of Los Angeles and 9.5% in sales tax by the county and state — a markup of more than 34%.
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