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How to Block Stingray Devices

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Re: How to Block Stingray Devices

#41

Post by lallysingh »

JoeSmithson wrote: post #38
coretx wrote: post #15

When sincerely concerned about stingray devices it might be a better idea to either invest in a professional detection appliance or to install applications such as AIMSICD. ( foss/free) If you only deny 2g connectivity; it provides no certainty against being stung and you won't know if you are a target. https://github.com/CellularPrivacy/Android-IMSI-Catcher-Dete...

I have struggled to come up with a way of asking this neutrally, and I believe in a right to privacy and think "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" is nonsense, but seriously... wtf are people doing that they are "sincerely concerned about stingray devices"?

They live in areas with crime. And don't want to get their phones picked up in others' investigations.

Re: How to Block Stingray Devices

#42

Post by pavel_lishin »

tapland wrote: post #18

If you are having trouble accessing the # #4636# # menu (I had on my international S9+) this app got me into the menu: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.samseen.ne...

Honestly, I'd rather take my chances of being spied on by the local police department rather than install a very suspicious looking app from the play store.

"contains ads"

Re: How to Block Stingray Devices

#43

Post by acct1771 »

JoeSmithson wrote: post #38
coretx wrote: post #15

When sincerely concerned about stingray devices it might be a better idea to either invest in a professional detection appliance or to install applications such as AIMSICD. ( foss/free) If you only deny 2g connectivity; it provides no certainty against being stung and you won't know if you are a target. https://github.com/CellularPrivacy/Android-IMSI-Catcher-Dete...

I have struggled to come up with a way of asking this neutrally, and I believe in a right to privacy and think "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" is nonsense, but seriously... wtf are people doing that they are "sincerely concerned about stingray devices"?

Probably reading articles about the massive proliferation of private and State Stingrays...

Re: How to Block Stingray Devices

#44

Post by rasz »

assblaster wrote: post #29
pjc50 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Service update" SMS messages can write certain things to the SIM card and other aspects of the phone without user interaction. (this machinery is rather hard to google for and I'm not sure if it has a better name in the official GSM documents)

That's interesting, it sounds like something that was being repeatedly sent to my Motorola flip phone in China in 2007. I had the ability to reject this SMS/MMS thankfully.

No, that was most likely spam. You cant even see service updates(OTA), just like silent sms(type0) they are invisible to the user.

https://github.com/CellularPrivacy/Android-IMSI-Catcher-Dete...

Re: How to Block Stingray Devices

#45

Post by jpmattia »

r3bl wrote: post #23
lkdjjdjjjdskjd wrote: post #21

Is that relevant, if your apps only communicate with encrypted messages (https only and so on)?

Yes. For example, stingrays could still locate your phone and deny you service.

Isn't that also true for non-stingray connections?

For an example of location from today's news: https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/investigations/article21901...

Re: How to Block Stingray Devices

#46

Post by hedora »

vkou wrote: post #37
squarefoot wrote: post #28

On modern phones Stingray devices are just one of the many tools that can be used to gain access to private communications and data. Any app requiring access permissions to everything is a potential vulnerability that can be exploited by 3rd parties (not to mention closed blobs etc); in this context smartphones are all things considered much more vulnerable than old 2G ones. Not being a target of interest for the pol…

What exactly are the practical consequences of being spied on by GMAF, compared to law enforcement? You'll see a targeted advertisement, in place of an untargeted one? The problem with being spied upon by law enforcement is that it's not you who decides whether or not you're an interesting person. They do.

Law enforcement agencies can (and do) purchase ad targeting profile data, and can also force warrantless searches of commercial databases, at least in the US.

They also can legally (and do) intercept things like backup replication streams of the big providers (they did this to yahoo years ago, for example).

My rule of thumb is that if any big consumer cloud service has it, then law enforcement does too.

Since the data is gathered using gray-area / illegal techniques, it will never be used in legitimate ways in court, which means it will only ever be used to further violate the rights of private citizens.

Re: How to Block Stingray Devices

#48

Post by vkou »

hedora wrote: post #46
vkou wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are the practical consequences of being spied on by GMAF, compared to law enforcement? You'll see a targeted advertisement, in place of an untargeted one? The problem with being spied upon by law enforcement is that it's not you who decides whether or not you're an interesting person. They do.

Law enforcement agencies can (and do) purchase ad targeting profile data, and can also force warrantless searches of commercial databases, at least in the US. They also can legally (and do) intercept things like backup replication streams of the big providers (they did this to yahoo years ago, for example). My rule of thumb is that if any big consumer cloud service has it, then law enforcement does too. Since the dat…

> Law enforcement agencies can (and do) purchase ad targeting profile data

Ad targeting profile data isn't typically sold in a way that's particularly useful to LE. It's the most valuable thing the ad networks own. I can't call up Facebook [1], and ask to buy your demographic profile. I can call up Facebook, and ask to buy the ability to show ads to people fitting your demographic profile.

Data from big providers, that ends up in the hands of law enforcement, is gathered through one of two ways:

1. Legitimate requests for access, with a judge signing off on it, an associated paper trail, and some pushback from the companies.

2. NSLs, with a secret judge signing off on it, and nearly no paper trail, and some pushback from the companies.

As far as I'm aware, #1 dwarfs #2 in frequency of access, and is also a completely legal, above-board way for LE to operate.

Stingrays, on the other hand, are much more like #2.

I mean, if you're not going to go through the trouble of protecting yourself from a Stingray, I understand. I occasionally jaywalk, and don't always cook my meat to 'well-done', wear mixed fabrics, and may have played hokey during my last dentist appointment. It's a risk/hazard sort of thing.

But if type #2 LE access is what you're concerned about, then you should probably look into dealing with Stingrays.

[1] Actually, I guess I can, as we discover with the train wreck of a platform partners program. And I am shocked that it is that much of a train wreck. Still, I can't buy your profile from Apple, or Google, or Microsoft.

Re: How to Block Stingray Devices

#49

Post by squarefoot »

vkou wrote: post #37
squarefoot wrote: post #28

On modern phones Stingray devices are just one of the many tools that can be used to gain access to private communications and data. Any app requiring access permissions to everything is a potential vulnerability that can be exploited by 3rd parties (not to mention closed blobs etc); in this context smartphones are all things considered much more vulnerable than old 2G ones. Not being a target of interest for the pol…

What exactly are the practical consequences of being spied on by GMAF, compared to law enforcement? You'll see a targeted advertisement, in place of an untargeted one? The problem with being spied upon by law enforcement is that it's not you who decides whether or not you're an interesting person. They do.

"What exactly are the practical consequences of being spied on by GMAF, compared to law enforcement?"

Should law enforcement order them to relinquish all data about someone wrapped in a gag order, they get all information they need without that someone even noticing.

Re: How to Block Stingray Devices

#50

Post by vkou »

squarefoot wrote: post #49
vkou wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are the practical consequences of being spied on by GMAF, compared to law enforcement? You'll see a targeted advertisement, in place of an untargeted one? The problem with being spied upon by law enforcement is that it's not you who decides whether or not you're an interesting person. They do.

"What exactly are the practical consequences of being spied on by GMAF, compared to law enforcement?" Should law enforcement order them to relinquish all data about someone wrapped in a gag order, they get all information they need without that someone even noticing.

You believe you are not of interest to LE, and therefore have no need to protect yourself from a Stingray.

I disagree, but if we were to accept that premise, then you shouldn't really concern yourself with NSLs, either.

So, besides LE taking an interest in you, what are the actual consequences of FAMG spying on you?

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