An Apology and an Update • Hacker News Board

Re: An Apology and an Update

#41

Post by dylan604 » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 3:40 AM UTC

morpheuskafka wrote: post #35

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #22

> We will soon begin blocking access to our service from IP addresses associated with an embargoed country. Users who travel to a sanctioned country may not be able to access Slack while they remain in that country. Is Slack legally required to do this? As long as they aren't knowingly accepting payment from these countries, shouldn't they be in the clear? How are other tech companies dealing with this? Does Google b…

I thought embargoes didn't apply to information anyway? You're still allowed to text someone in Cuba or even call North Korea, so how come Slack is banned?

Texts/SMS/voice calls etc are not encrypted. The NSA slurps that data up like a sponge wrapped in Brawny wrapped in a ShamWow. There's a huge list of why we can't export/sale things to certain countries, but encryption is one of them. Things that seem "innocent" enough like a hardware video box might qualify as embargoed because it has the ability to decode SSL network traffic. Can't let that tech get in the hands of the "enemy".

Re: An Apology and an Update

#42

Post by epc » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 3:43 AM UTC

kodablah wrote: post #19

What changed recently that hadn't been the case for past years that made them add these new measures? A true, earnest apology would at least touch on the justifications for the changes more than just "become legal". But I understand that, sadly, that kind of transparency is a bit much to ask of any company these days. Still curious though if it was just an internal decision or spurred via government/legal threat/requ…

The US elected Donald Trump as President, who then reversed the Obama Administration approach to Iran and reimposed sanctions.

With respect to Slack, if they intend to IPO in 2019 they may be going through a due diligence checklist as others have suggested.

Re: An Apology and an Update

#43

Post by dylan604 » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 3:44 AM UTC

ouid wrote: post #38

What would the penalty for non-compliance here be?

Fines if it's not a criminal violation, or potential prison time if it is. Since it's a corp, and the group think here is that corps are shields from jail time for the employees, then probably no jail time.

There's also the negative PR that comes with being labeled as "aiding and abetting the enemy".

Re: An Apology and an Update

#44

Post by yellow_postit » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 3:47 AM UTC

Santosh83 wrote: post #13

What does Slack propose to do about access through a VPN so your real IP is hidden? Of course in the long term this is just incentive for countries to support balkanisation of the Internet.

It’s an arms race but can always invest in detecting VPN access — see for example trying to watch Netflix through a VPN.

Re: An Apology and an Update

#45

Post by dylan604 » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 3:50 AM UTC

rattray wrote: post #4

warent wrote: post #3

I'm definitely living under a rock. Why is Slack being impacted by a trade embargo?

All US companies doing business internationally are impacted by US trade laws (eg; sanctions, trade embargoes), I believe. Eg; you're not allowed to sell stuff to Iran, or certain individuals.

They can also bend those restrictions to non-US companies wanting to do business within the US. Just because the US embargoes/sanctions the sell of Iranian oil, or the sell of any nation's oil to North Korea, doesn't mean that it is illegal for other nation's companies to do so (unless their gov't also has similar restrictions). Here comes the but... the US then makes it illegal for those companies to do business within the US just because they were friendly to people the US doesn't like.

Re: An Apology and an Update

#46

Post by roadkillon101 » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 3:55 AM UTC

While "banning by ip" will work for discouraging most users, a VPN service or a Proxy service (Socks, ssh, etc) would make it irrelevant if someone wants to use a service like slack, facebook or google...It just inconveniences those who do want to use it bad enough. To me, it's a "band-aid of compliance" to whatever agency has requested them to do a ban on certain countries IPs.

Re: An Apology and an Update

#47

Post by LeoNatan25 » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 4:01 AM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #40

I'm a big fan and critic of apologies. This one is pretty good. They admit the mistake was theirs and they take responsibility for it. They say sorry. They explain what they're going to do to fix the situation. They say they're going to learn from this and not have similar mistakes in the future. Pretty solid. The only thing that is missing, in my view, is personalization. Tell me who you are, speaking for the organi…

I'd subtract a few points for taking so long. Lawyers have gawked on this for hours to find holes, rendering the sincerity mute. 5/10

It's Slack, so actually 2/10.

Re: An Apology and an Update

#48

Post by SomeHacker44 » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 4:05 AM UTC

sftwds wrote: post #37

orthecreedence wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Going to go ahead and throw Matrix/Riot out there as a great alternative.

We use Mattermost at my company, which works well for us and is entirely self hosted.

Seconded. I like controlling things myself and hosting them myself. Nobody (um, but AWS, our ISP, our DNS registrar, ARIN, oh and heck tons of others) can shut me down now.

Re: An Apology and an Update

#49

Post by bdefore » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 4:09 AM UTC

derf_ wrote: post #33

orthecreedence wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Going to go ahead and throw Matrix/Riot out there as a great alternative.

I pretty much gave up on Matrix after the following exchange: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8697151 Perhaps I am overreacting, but that sort of attitude on matters core to basic privacy in the post-Snowden era seems both problematic and incurable.

Matrix E2E encryption is opt-in per room while its support is in beta, with the intent to have on by default when it's out. https://www.uhoreg.ca/blog/20170910-2110

Re: An Apology and an Update

#50

Post by azhenley » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 4:14 AM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #40

I'm a big fan and critic of apologies. This one is pretty good. They admit the mistake was theirs and they take responsibility for it. They say sorry. They explain what they're going to do to fix the situation. They say they're going to learn from this and not have similar mistakes in the future. Pretty solid. The only thing that is missing, in my view, is personalization. Tell me who you are, speaking for the organi…

This apology seems very generic and sterile to me. People are boycotting their product so they apologized.

They should have communicated with their users to begin with before taking such harsh actions.