Second Canadian 'missing' in China • Hacker News Board

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#41

Post by latch » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 5:55 AM UTC

nabla9 wrote: post #22

hucxsz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you come to a conclusion that randomly arrested two people? Double standard?

Different systems and real differences. China does not have the rule of law or separation of powers like western countries have. In the west it's not easy for the executive branch to interfere with individual cases. US or Canada executive branch can't just tell justice department to arrest someone. In China that's possible and common.

> China does not have the rule of law

A quick look at Wiki suggest that there's at least some aspects of rule of law in China (1) - although with some defects.

I don't have the background to compare these defects with those of any other country (like the US's high incarceration rate (in general, and of minorities specifically)). I have lived a few years in China and Hong Kong and know a few lawyers and accountants born/working there. This experience has left me with a generally positive outlook.

I always try to keep in mind that my experience is narrow, but, sadly, people often have absolute opinions with even less experience, so it's always hard to gauge. I'm curious if this is a field that you've studied or work in specifically?

(1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_law#Rule_of_law

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#42

Post by RidingPegasus » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 5:58 AM UTC

wisdomoftheages wrote: post #29

RidingPegasus wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crown counsel told a Friday bail hearing in B.C. Supreme Court in Vancouver Friday that Meng is "charged with conspiracy to defraud multiple international institutions" https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bail-hearing... Do you foresee extradition requests for EU executives doing business with Iran? https://www.dw.com/en/eu-plan-to-sidestep-iran-sanctions-how...

The crime is not trading with Iran, the crime is defrauding the US financial system in order to do it. For some reason, this is framed as though Huawei is accused of trading with Iran completely independently of the United States. That's not the case at all.

> The crime is not trading with Iran, the crime is defrauding the US financial system

Is that not exactly what I said in response to a comment claiming she was selling US tech to Iran?

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#43

Post by monksy » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 5:59 AM UTC

If this is a retaliation and they intend on continuing on this. China is going to find it's self on the bad end of travel advisories by a lot of western nations.

BTW There have been videos about "tourist crackdowns" and how some of the authoritarian governments use visitors as scapegoats of bad behavior.

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#44

Post by kodablah » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 5:59 AM UTC

nabla9 wrote: post #22

hucxsz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you come to a conclusion that randomly arrested two people? Double standard?

Different systems and real differences. China does not have the rule of law or separation of powers like western countries have. In the west it's not easy for the executive branch to interfere with individual cases. US or Canada executive branch can't just tell justice department to arrest someone. In China that's possible and common.

This doesn't completely address the commenter's point. They asked how the GP came to the conclusion that they were arrested randomly which is a reasonable question. Not knowing doesn't mean your guess is accurate. Granted, one can take issue with the double standard question...but to twist it a bit, it's kinda a double standard to, without evidence/reason, say a country is doing something without evidence/reason.

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#45

Post by wallace_f » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 6:14 AM UTC

curiousgal wrote: post #30

wybiral wrote: post #20

People are jumping to a number of conclusions in these threads with little evidence. The rapid down-voting is crazy. There's no confirmation that this had anything to do with Meng, or that these people weren't guilty of something worth investigating. Wait for more details before assuming that everything is connected.

Extrapolating from that, I always find it amusing when people seem to have global politics figured out, not realizing that it's a complex dynamic system with hundreds if not thousands of agents at play, when they ,the very same people, would be lost watching a two-player poker game.

But how can we know if we should agree with your comment without knowing your political affiliation?

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#46

Post by tinza123 » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 6:16 AM UTC

monksy wrote: post #43

If this is a retaliation and they intend on continuing on this. China is going to find it's self on the bad end of travel advisories by a lot of western nations. BTW There have been videos about "tourist crackdowns" and how some of the authoritarian governments use visitors as scapegoats of bad behavior.

That seems to be the least of the problems right now. And of course when Canada just arrested business people they never need to worry about the travel advisories for Chinese ppl.

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#47

Post by tinza123 » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 6:18 AM UTC

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #8

Is this really retaliation for Meng? Wow that's incredibly artless and ham-fisted if true.

I agree it is out of the blue. But defending is normally lacking preparation and elegance than offending especially for sudden atracks, just like in real fight.

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#48

Post by tinza123 » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 6:19 AM UTC

ahmedalsudani wrote: post #40

gcb0 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the world doesn't work like that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik power and situation dictates how laws, specially from international treaties, are upheld.

[Downvotes for my parent are unwarranted.] It would be naive to believe politics/geopolitics plays no role in the justice system; it would be equally naive to believe rule of law is a sham. I am an immigrant from a place where the legal code is largely a set of tools and pretexts for the powerful. I can assure you that the rule of law is more than just a phrase thrown around by our politicians.

Not according to Trump tho.

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#49

Post by RidingPegasus » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 6:22 AM UTC

giarc wrote: post #14

fatjokes wrote: post #5

The US has played Canada. They request this, Canada performs the arrest, Trump plays good cop ("I'll intervene if I have to"), and China can't retaliate against the US but can take it out on Canada. I'm sure Trump is giddy given how much he dislikes Trudeau.

I don't believe Canada was played. I doubt she would have ever taken a flight through the USA and therefore this was probably their only chance to get her.

The sealed indictment for her arrest was 4 months ago on Aug 22, she has traveled through numerous countries including Canada in that time. The arrest came only hours after US/China trade talks finished, it's also unusual in that it's an individual rather than the company being taken to court.

She's also the CFO of the world's 2nd biggest smartphone manufacturer that just overtook Apple. Decide for yourself.

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#50

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 6:23 AM UTC

monksy wrote: post #43

If this is a retaliation and they intend on continuing on this. China is going to find it's self on the bad end of travel advisories by a lot of western nations. BTW There have been videos about "tourist crackdowns" and how some of the authoritarian governments use visitors as scapegoats of bad behavior.

[deleted]