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Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

aspistrategist.org.au

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Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#41

Post by jacobush »

remarkEon wrote: post #22
kristofferR wrote: post #8

This site has a great animation of the crash, including the leaked radio communications: https://www.vg.no/spesial/2018/helge-ingstad-ulykken/ Click "Helge Ingstad natt" to see the POV from the frigate. "Styrbord" means starboard/right, that's basically all the Norwegian you need to know.

Really cool, thanks. I’m actualy pretty surprised how much of the Norwegian language I could imply into English there. It wasn’t that hard to follow along on that map. Context matters a lot, I guess.

Norwegian is mostly intelligible with Swedish, but the words that differ from Swedish are very often exactly the same word in English. The Danes live on - in England.

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#42

Post by sebcat »

sinuhe69 wrote: post #27

Like people with a loaded gun, sailors and officiers of warships think they are invincible and anybody else has to avoid them and not vice versa. I guess the bleak reality after such incidents would give them a cold shower to wake up, but probably too late. All modern warships were designed as if they operate on open ocean only when in reality most of the time they must navigate in world where commercial shipping has…

While your narrative is a compelling one, I do not see how it maps to the sequence of events leading up to the collision.

According to the investigation, Sola TS was mistaken to be a stationary object further away, and the warning received over radio was believed to come from one of the outer portside ships. If that was the information I had at hand, I would not turn starboard either.

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#44

Post by skookumchuck »

andyidsinga wrote: post #31
sinuhe69 wrote: post #27

Like people with a loaded gun, sailors and officiers of warships think they are invincible and anybody else has to avoid them and not vice versa. I guess the bleak reality after such incidents would give them a cold shower to wake up, but probably too late. All modern warships were designed as if they operate on open ocean only when in reality most of the time they must navigate in world where commercial shipping has…

Speaking about sailors and invincibility - there's a funny story that's circulated around (false according to snopes [1]) about a particular US and Canadian Navy interaction :) :) Text snipped from snopes article: Americans: “Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.” Canadians: “Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.” Americans: “This is the capta…

Distress Call: "I'm sinking, I'm sinking."

Coast Guard: "What are you thinking about?"

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#45

Post by skookumchuck »

ALittleLight wrote: post #3

One issue the article goes into is that the sailors were distracted by their high tech bridge computers and so failed to notice the ship they were in the process of ramming. I have trouble understanding how this works - what is your high tech bridge gear showing you if not the surrounding area? Someone should be checking where the ship is going and whether they check with their mark one eyeballs or their high tech sh…

In piloting aircraft, too, it pays to look out the window now and then.

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#46

Post by krono »

skookumchuck wrote: post #44
andyidsinga wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking about sailors and invincibility - there's a funny story that's circulated around (false according to snopes [1]) about a particular US and Canadian Navy interaction :) :) Text snipped from snopes article: Americans: “Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.” Canadians: “Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.” Americans: “This is the capta…

Distress Call: "I'm sinking, I'm sinking." Coast Guard: "What are you thinking about?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLSdOY-6R_U

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#48

Post by timonoko »

One solution might be allowing false identities in Marine Traffic aka AIS for navy and coast guard ships. They could claim to be civilian ships of same size. Especially while kayaking in Norway the AIS is essential, as bigger ships do not have any methods to detect kayaks except visual.

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#49

Post by spanxx »

MordodeMaru wrote: post #43

Funny thing is that Spanish company Navantia was the first to be accused of this (design errors, inexplicable sinking...) and in this article I still see some indirect finger pointing and yet no proof of that. There is some weird thing going on here.

It's always easier to blame others than accept own's responsibility.

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#50

Post by yread »

aardvark291 wrote: post #23
lcuff wrote: post #10

Saying this has "far-reaching implications" sits with me as click bait.

This is a reference to the fact, stated in the article, that Australia, Germany, Spain, and the Netherlands have ships of a similar design built by the same shipbuilder, which may also suffer from design flaws that allowed this one to sink so readily.

And for many of the navies these ships are the biggest most expensive and advanced vessels in the whole fleet. Imagine if the US Navy found out that Nimitz-class has a strange tendency to sink inexplicably
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