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Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

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41–50 of 83 posts

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#41
post #5

> As I argued, once Bitcoin’s price falls below its cost of mining, the incentive to mine will deteriorate, thrusting bitcoin into a death spiral. When bitcoin appeared it's price was zero, yet people still mined it despite being a clear "worthless" activity.

The only problem is if the hashrate keeps dropping, it will be much easier for some disenfranchise individual/group to just hire the excessive hashrate for just enough time to do a 51% attack and completely destry bitcoin's credibility.

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#42
post #16
post #7

Bitcoin's price drop might look bad enought to warrant sensational articles, but if you take any bitcoin price chart over the last years (like [1]) and switch it to logarithmic price, it doesn't appear exceptional. The same thing happened in 2013. 1: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#charts

If you take any time series asset of the price of any asset, and switch it to logarithmic, none of the drops will appear exceptional either. That’s what logarithmic scale does.

If you assume something grows exponentially (which is roughly how bitcoin behaves), then looking at a linear chart doesn't lead to useful conclusions.

Alternatively you can look at [1] which uses linear scale, but as you look at different parts of the timeline it rescales the chart. Sure, the recent drop looks dramatic. But it looks less dramatic than when in 2011 the price rose from $0.80 all the way to $30 and fell back to $2.20. Or the 2013 event where the price rose from $15 to $100 to $1000 in the span of a few months, only to crash down to a devastating $230.

1: https://99bitcoins.com/price-chart-history/

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#43
Mining can only become unprofitable for a while: Until the difficulty is adjusted.

There is a whole industry depending on Bitcoin. If mining becomes unprofitable, there will be players that pay for the mining to continue until the difficulty adjusts. To keep their companies alive.

There is also another counterargument. One that does not only apply to the problem of mining but to any problem with Bitcoin in general: If a hard problem occurs, it is very likely that the industry would collectively switch to a fork.

For me, the value of Bitcoin is mainly rooted in that fact. Bitcoin is widely spread. So it will probably be the seed for future currencies that one day will be more valuable then the original.

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#44
post #8
post #3

The key argument seems to be: > Third, the futures markets have changed the game, enabling miners to estimate their mining losses and profits at the outset — if you can buy in a futures market at a price below my mining costs, why mine for a sure loss?

There is only so much you can buy in a futures market before it starts pulling the spot market up.

You might be interested to learn this is a point of some contention. There have been real markets with utterly wild and out of control futures markets where the spot seems to have happily trundled along with the fundamentals.

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#45
post #17

The article is misinformed: I am the first one to jump on Bitcoin's flaws, but this here just reeks of somebody not understanding the protocol: > As I argued, once Bitcoin’s price falls below its cost of mining, the incentive to mine will deteriorate, thrusting bitcoin into a death spiral. The cost of mining adjusts depending on the hash rate , so if nobody is mining the cost of mining goes down until people start mi…

This has been addressed in the article: > So, it appears bitcoin is now entering a death spiral: If the price continues to drop and the cost of mining does not fall correspondingly (the cost of mining will algorithmically decrease, but not necessarily to same extent as the decline in prices), bitcoin will quickly go to zero.

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#46

The article is misinformed: I am the first one to jump on Bitcoin's flaws, but this here just reeks of somebody not understanding the protocol: > As I argued, once Bitcoin’s price falls below its cost of mining, the incentive to mine will deteriorate, thrusting bitcoin into a death spiral. The cost of mining adjusts depending on the hash rate , so if nobody is mining the cost of mining goes down until people start mi…

The cost of mining only adjusts after a set number of blocks. It's possible for there to be a sudden drop in price, meaning the majority of miners shut down unprofitable rigs, and then it takes essentially infinite time to mine the required N blocks to adjust the difficulty.

Wouldn't it pay for those then sitting on hardware to mine at a loss, in order to adjust the difficulty, in order to restore the value somewhat.

I'd guess it would get very spiky as people tried to buy up preempting the "rescue" efforts.

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#47
post #7

Bitcoin's price drop might look bad enought to warrant sensational articles, but if you take any bitcoin price chart over the last years (like [1]) and switch it to logarithmic price, it doesn't appear exceptional. The same thing happened in 2013. 1: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#charts

True, but I think this time around, people are realizing that no one is actually using for purposes other than speculation.

Some Venezuelan ppl might disagree with you :)

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#48
post #34
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been addressed in the article: > So, it appears bitcoin is now entering a death spiral: If the price continues to drop and the cost of mining does not fall correspondingly (the cost of mining will algorithmically decrease, but not necessarily to same extent as the decline in prices), bitcoin will quickly go to zero.

Which won't happen since the 'cost' of mining is electricity and hardware costs which for some miners is probably very close to zero. All this is going to do is shuffle out the miners who have no efficiency.

Sounds like an opportunity for someone to get control of more than 50% of mining capacity.

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#49
post #7

Bitcoin's price drop might look bad enought to warrant sensational articles, but if you take any bitcoin price chart over the last years (like [1]) and switch it to logarithmic price, it doesn't appear exceptional. The same thing happened in 2013. 1: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#charts

As an aside I have never seen an ad before with options to “buy” or “get loan” as there was on that page

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#50
Bitcoin price in the past 30 days Chart https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/bitcoin has been on a pressure And that's look mainly driven by market, miners will shake up and driven to mine what's most profitable and they have option to point to Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin SV for ASICs
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