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Clojure REBL [video]
41–50 of 101 posts
Re: Clojure REBL [video]
#42While we're talking about this conference, rich hickey just changed how I think about domain modelling forever with this talk, released about an hour ago: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5WdGrpoug
Strongly recommend a watch particularly if you're modelling something in a typed language
Re: Clojure REBL [video]
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Clojure has facilities for seamless interop with Java (or whatever platform it's hosted on). A lot of times when inter-operating with Java libraries, you get back an opaque Object with associated methods when you'd normally expect a transparent Clojure map or some other pure data structure if you were interacting with a purely Clojure library. Datafy is just a protocol that allows you to transform those opaque Object…
I still fail to see how methods are not data in the general sense, but while trying to answer my own question, it seems that "data" in clojure means roughly "Either an atomic type[1] or a collection" 1: an "atom" in clojure is not what it is in traditional lisp lingo; is there a name in clojure for type that is roughly the union of: symbol, number, character, boolean ? perhaps "primitive"?
This concept is pretty subtle. Rich Hickey does a great job at explaining it (as always) in "Are We There Yet?"[1]. He deconstructs objects into state (attributes) and behavior (methods), and then uses values (or data) to represent state, and functions to represent behavior. Give that a watch a couple of times to get a better handle on what all this means from the Clojure perspective.
[edit] To answer your other question, a value that isn't a collection in Clojure is called a scalar.
1: https://www.infoq.com/presentations/Are-We-There-Yet-Rich-Hi...
Re: Clojure REBL [video]
#44Given that this is pretty much an inferior version of the Pharo Glamorous Toolkit [1], which has been available for years, it is very disappointing to not see a reference/attribution. Especially taking into account that the - pioneering - research happened in the Smalltalk camp. If I wanted to be cynical I would say that presenting half-assed re-implementations of good ideas found in non-popular projects (Smalltalk, Common Lisp) in an easily-digestible manner with a veneer of freshness, is very prevalent in the Clojure domain.
I find REBL to be inferior because it largely misses the "moldable tool" point of GT. REBL focuses on the data (almost solely one could say) but presents a rigid UI - other than the data-specific part - whilst GT allows _everything_ to be molded at runtime which is of course the better approach. GT obsessively focuses on the interplay between data and the person interacting with said data. In systems theory terms, person and data mesh together into cybernetic entanglement.
Re: Clojure REBL [video]
#45I really, really like Clojure. I just wish I had something to use it for. I've done lots of Common Lisp development previously and REPL-based programming is just great. I can't really do it in Python and it makes me sad.
> I can't really do it in Python and it makes me sad. That really bugs me with a great many popular languages. There's a REPL, but the libraries and tooling don't really embrace it.
It doesn't help that most languages that advertise having a REPL really have more of an interactive shell than a true read-eval-print-loop. Lisps do a really good job of making a distinction between the reader, evaluator, and the printer. It makes it really easy to create tools that use just one or two of these or insert themselves between the different layers to expand the REPLs capabilities.
Re: Clojure REBL [video]
#46So is this like exploring the web via a browser using hateoas & mime types? But instead exploring edn on rebl using clojure's 'new' data protocols? Feels old hat... But anything to shine a light on data oriented programming (and clojure sure is beautiful)
Re: Clojure REBL [video]
#47.
I’d say that is just spreading FUD around. How come I see plenty of job postings? Not interested myself, as I’m happily running my own SaaS written in Clojure and ClojureScript, but seriously: if you want a job writing Clojure, it’s not that hard. I mean, if Walmart and Citibank are hiring Clojure developers, it’s not exactly „in decline”.
Re: Clojure REBL [video]
#48I just finished watching, and I'm super excited about this idea. There's been a lot of talk in the Clojure community about how to improve documentation, and then Rich comes along and thinks hard about it for a long time and then drops a general purpose data browser. I'm really excited by the possibilities this brings to the table. > This is design work. Thanks Rich. Well said! It feels to me that the power of a whole…
I'm curious on just how new this is. Feels like very similar things have been demoed before in environments like Dr Racket.
Still lots of fun, mind you. And anything to bring these environments to more folks. I just worry about things that only demo well if well rehearsed. Which seems to be more technology than makes sense.
Re: Clojure REBL [video]
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
And I am so stoked for it. Smalltalk did a few things right that have still not been properly copied by other systems, but smalltalk itself was doomed to obscurity the second all the major implementations went for the Common Lisp-style "ship the system as an image" brain damage. While clojure is far from perfect, it actually has a story for shipping your code, in a form where you don't need to embarrass yourself when…
Can you say more about what makes it “far from perfect” besides the error messages? What are its other weaknesses? I’m still in the honeymoon phase and want to hear more from folks who have shipped code.
I personally hate the startup time. Mainly because it prevents me from using it in places I really want it.
It's gotten a lot better over the years, but it's still pretty bad.
Re: Clojure REBL [video]
#50From the license: > You may not use REBL for commercial use.
Sometimes it seems as if Cognitect just doesn't want people to use Clojure. It's like they looked at the results from the survey[0], created a tool that appears to address some of the main gripes that people have, and then proceeded to say "screw you" to all of the people that use Clojure commercially and may actually pay for Datomic... [0]: https://danielcompton.net/2018/03/28/clojure-survey-2018
I know how easy it is to come up with interpretations like that but the site guidelines ask you to push pause before simply posting them. They have a destructive effect, one that compounds nonlinearly.
"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."