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‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

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Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#41

Post by ewhanley »

crispyambulance wrote: post #21
DennisP wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically speaking, the best time to own Bitcoin was back in January. Things always look great at the top of a bubble. CO2 is higher than in the past several million years and we're still adding more at our usual pace. We've killed 60% of wild vertebrate life since 1970, wiped out a large percentage of the insect population, and we're continuing the practices that caused that as well. None of this can go on foreve…

Well put. The ironic thing about all numbers-oriented folks in extractive enterprises (regardless of whether they're extracting natural resources, capital, or labor), is their blind spot to the fact that ALL resources are finite. There's no "free-refill" when the big-gulp runs out.

I can only speak to the minerals extraction industry (oil & gas, specifically), but they (we) are well aware that hydrocarbons are a finite resource. The industry as a whole is arguably short sighted, but it’s not because they think the supply of oil is endless.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#42

Post by PhasmaFelis »

AJRF wrote: post #14

"I’ve been thinking about 12 Monkeys a lot lately. It seems, these days, as though the human race has passed a Rubicon and is now on a straight path toward the end of days, or at least the end of the social order as we know it." This feels a little unsubstantiated. Historically speaking, this is the greatest time on earth to be alive. This pessimism is toxic and unrealistic.

A whole lot of factors are better now than they've ever been, and that's genuinely wonderful and cause for optimism.

It's naive to therefore ignore all other factors. The great strides we're making in access to food and clean water and medical care won't stop unchecked global warming from devastating human civilization. It's not just a matter of rising sea levels; if things continue apace, large parts of the equator will be too hot for humans to survive by the end of this century, and hundreds of millions of climate refugees will be seeking sanctuary somewhere, anywhere.

Acknowledge our successes and keep fighting.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#43

Post by NeedMoreTea »

Cyph0n wrote: post #9

If you’re interested in a more in-depth look at the 12 Monkeys universe, check out the excellent TV series of the same title.

The TV series was truly awful and utterly unrelated to the movie, except the weak linking to try and force it to be related in the first one or two episodes.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#44

Post by ta_egdhs »

api wrote: post #38
ctdonath wrote: post #8

"the ’90s, that bizarre blip in American history where it seemed like we were living in an eternal present, the End of History" That's something millennials & later won't understand: 2000 was a mental barrier we couldn't really think past. Objectively, people may have addressed the next millennium's dates, but we just couldn't deeply believe we'd be living in what was always colloquially called "the future".

I have a very different take. As someone who grew up in the 90s I draw the line at 9/11. That event ended the brief post cold war era of peace, prosperity, and optimism. We still have not recovered culturally from 9/11. The optimism of the 90s is literally unthinkable today. The terrorists won.

idk why this is downvoted. the 90s is the period between the end of the cold war and the start of the war on terror. its the only time in living memory where there was no enemy.

9/11 absolutely changed the country. it was the start of militarized police, nationalistic displays, and 24/7 fear that have all been normalized today. Perhaps the terrorists didn't win (Bin Laden is dead and the house of Saud still stands) but we certainly lost.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#45

Post by jlawson »

dudul wrote: post #22
rossdavidh wrote: post #20

So, perhaps the author is correct about the film's ending, but that's not the way I interpreted it when I first saw it. Rather, it seemed to me that the scientist from the future was there to insure that the disease did, in fact, spread, even if Bruce Willis' character stopped the original source from getting on the plane. She was either a carrier (a Typhoid Mary of sorts), or else had her own vial. I thought it sugg…

I'm glad I read this article because I never understood the ending that way. I'm probably kind of dumb, but for me, the scientist at the end, on the plane, was just there as part of the normal timeline. I never imagined that she travelled from the future, I thought it was just her character before the epidemic :)

Cole's time was 2035; the plane scene was 1995. If it was just her before the epidemic she'd appear in her 20's. She must have been a time traveler.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#46

Post by wpietri »

AJRF wrote: post #14

"I’ve been thinking about 12 Monkeys a lot lately. It seems, these days, as though the human race has passed a Rubicon and is now on a straight path toward the end of days, or at least the end of the social order as we know it." This feels a little unsubstantiated. Historically speaking, this is the greatest time on earth to be alive. This pessimism is toxic and unrealistic.

> Historically speaking, this is the greatest time on earth to be alive. This pessimism is toxic and unrealistic.

Perhaps you haven't been following the news about the rise of authoritarianism [1][2] and the revitalization of ethnic nationalism? Historically speaking, those have led to enormous suffering.

[1] If you like video, John Oliver had a great summary in his last show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ximgPmJ9A5s

[2] Or if you prefer numbers, we are in a "global democratic recession": https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/01/31/democrac...

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#47

Post by MrTonyD »

howlin wrote: post #35
andrepd wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The root cause of all of this: an economic system predicated on the notion of growth . Unrestrained greed, sole focus on maximization of profit, and unlimited growth. It's not enough to sell as many mobile phones as you did last year, no, you must sell 10% more each quarter, or whatever. Doesn't matter if you're mining the earth bare, generating millions of tons of garbage, optimising for inferior products that break…

""" It's not enough to sell as many mobile phones as you did last year, no, you must sell 10% more each quarter, or whatever. """ But if the next gen of phones use 30% less resources, it's still possible to grow without increasing the rate of resource consumption. GDP growth has been driven much more by innovation than added resource consumption for years.

I think you're missing his point.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#48

Post by nonbel »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #42
AJRF wrote: post #14

"I’ve been thinking about 12 Monkeys a lot lately. It seems, these days, as though the human race has passed a Rubicon and is now on a straight path toward the end of days, or at least the end of the social order as we know it." This feels a little unsubstantiated. Historically speaking, this is the greatest time on earth to be alive. This pessimism is toxic and unrealistic.

A whole lot of factors are better now than they've ever been, and that's genuinely wonderful and cause for optimism. It's naive to therefore ignore all other factors. The great strides we're making in access to food and clean water and medical care won't stop unchecked global warming from devastating human civilization. It's not just a matter of rising sea levels; if things continue apace, large parts of the equator…

>"The great strides we're making in access to food and clean water and medical care won't stop unchecked global warming from devastating human civilization. It's not just a matter of rising sea levels; if things continue apace, large parts of the equator will be too hot for humans to survive by the end of this century, and hundreds of millions of climate refugees will be seeking sanctuary somewhere, anywhere."

Do you realize you are just like one of the crazy dudes yelling about doomsday on the corner? Just because you are online doesn't make it any more convincing, actually it makes it less convincing.

I assume you are repeating similar stuff over and over, so you should at least have some sources for each claim you include in these posts.

EDIT:

And I don't mean this in a non-constructive way. There are a few topics where I have found myself making the same arguments over and over online (measles, gene "editing", NHST) and so have saved a list of citations and quotes from them that resulted from my research into the topic. It can all be done quite informally and is not at all a hassle.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#49

Post by jlawson »

nabla9 wrote: post #24
dnautics wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't humanity saved? The main character's buddy from prison is able to show up to try to save him because greatly improved the tech; he claims that mc is a hero and things are headed to being solved?

Not in the movie. They definitely can't change the past. They live in block universe where there is only one timeline that happens no matter what. They can only travel into the past and observe and bring some stuff back. mc is a hero because he discovers the real villain and sends message to the future. The idea is to get sample of the original non-mutated virus and develop a cure in the future so that they can live…

I think the idea was that the woman scientist "in insurance" in the plane at the end was in fact the next agent working on getting the pre-mutated virus. She knew to go back to that time and get on that seat of that plane because Cole's actions pinpointed the target, time, and place.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#50

Post by api »

ta_egdhs wrote: post #44
api wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a very different take. As someone who grew up in the 90s I draw the line at 9/11. That event ended the brief post cold war era of peace, prosperity, and optimism. We still have not recovered culturally from 9/11. The optimism of the 90s is literally unthinkable today. The terrorists won.

idk why this is downvoted. the 90s is the period between the end of the cold war and the start of the war on terror. its the only time in living memory where there was no enemy. 9/11 absolutely changed the country. it was the start of militarized police, nationalistic displays, and 24/7 fear that have all been normalized today. Perhaps the terrorists didn't win (Bin Laden is dead and the house of Saud still stands) b…

Most of HN trends young (There was a general optimism and sense of freedom in the 90s that is just gone. We have continued to progress in many amazing ways, but I feel like it's on inertia. The living, growing, vibrant ideas of today are totalitarian and paranoid: the alt-right, the authoritarian left, nationalism, technocracy, neo-feudalism, etc.

I think part of the popularity of 9/11 conspiracy theories comes from the deep intuition that something broke and never recovered. I think most of those theories are BS but the intuition is correct.

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