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Facebook’s top execs ‘make tobacco executives look like Mr. Rogers’

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Re: Facebook’s top execs ‘make tobacco executives look like Mr. Rogers’

#41

Post by dontreact »

fisherjeff wrote: post #37
dontreact wrote: post #14

I think this makes light of the fact that lung cancer is one of the leading causes of death in the world. Every year millions of people die. Millions. And this is just one way cigarettes have negative impact. I’ve heard doctors say that we would need far fewer hospitals in the U.S if it wasn’t for all the negative effects of smoking.

I would note that they’re not comparing the effects of the two businesses, but rather the PR decisions made under fire. Not that I necessarily agree that the comparison is completely apt, but it’s certainly a much closer one.

The frustrating thing is that tobacco execs are still around. And that there is no hedging or context given so it’s pretty easy to come away with the impression that it’s something more broad than just the PR tactics. In fact I think that’s pretty open to interpretation.

Re: Facebook’s top execs ‘make tobacco executives look like Mr. Rogers’

#42

Post by chillacy »

dontreact wrote: post #26
perseusprime11 wrote: post #22

How much of these narrative/stories are coming from a hidden agenda of newspaper companies that are struggling to survive from the onslaught of aggregation platforms like Facebook and Google. There seems to be a sudden spike in these stories. Got to be coming/funding from somewhere. Anybody agree/disagree?

I agree with this. At the same time these large platforms have played a huge factor in the death of many local newspapers. Local journalism is pretty much no longer a viable career. And so no one is reporting on the actions of most state legislatures which is a big problem. The platforms have not really stepped in to fill this void. In the long term journalism as a whole may be at risk, leaving even larger and more i…

The internet has made the world a smaller place, I’m not sure local newscasts would have survived longer anyways just like local ironsmiths and cobblers disappeared in a world with a global supply chain.

Re: Facebook’s top execs ‘make tobacco executives look like Mr. Rogers’

#43

Post by dontreact »

yayana wrote: post #39
dontreact wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one thing I don’t get about this narrative. At this point how do we know how permanent what you’re talking about is? And how much is due to Facebook vs. just generally the unexpected terrible combination of it becoming very easy to distribute information + the fact that humans seek out information that tells them what they want to believe. I’m not saying we shouldn’t criticize Facebook, or that they shouldn’t…

In the case of cigarettes, the companies had the answer to these kinds of questions for decades and used it specifically to mislead the direction of public discovery. In their case, they had to risk their own studies in almost all cases instead of just monitoring their own distribution system. When Facebook says they don't know something there are a few possibilities, the least likely is that they don't know and don'…

No, I wasn’t clear enough. We should be pressuring Facebook to fix this societal problem. They -are- disseminating a ton of bad information.

Re: Facebook’s top execs ‘make tobacco executives look like Mr. Rogers’

#44

Post by Puer »

brentm wrote: post #33

The FB media onslaught is getting a bit overdone at this point. They aren't the worst company in the world. They probably have figured out that connecting everyone doesn't necessarily make the world a better place immediately but I applaud the effort and I think long term it will make a difference. So they make money selling ads which they display by algorithmically sifting through metadata. Around here I know it's n…

HN has always been super negative towards FB and their products (with perhaps the exception of Whatsapp) because HN has never been FB's target market. It's a lot easier to criticize a product that's never provided any utility to you personally. You don't really hear about the spread of racist, divisive, Russian sponsored content on YouTube or Twitter nearly as much here, and when you do you also don't get comments sections filled with moral grandstanding on how if you work at FB you're human garbage that should burn in hell.

Re: Facebook’s top execs ‘make tobacco executives look like Mr. Rogers’

#45

Post by busterarm »

mockindignant wrote: post #5
whatshisface wrote: post #2

I wish other companies could get the same kind of scrutiny as Facebook. For some reason while most scandals are pushed down and quickly forgotten, Facebook is being dragged around for all its worth. Maybe they weren't planting enough stories.

Which companies do you refer? I am fine with other companies facing public backlash for their actions just like Facebook is now if they are doing things as shady as Facebook.

Google.

Re: Facebook’s top execs ‘make tobacco executives look like Mr. Rogers’

#46

Post by lallysingh »

dontreact wrote: post #20
_iyig wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see what you're saying, but it's also true that cigarettes didn't fundamentally weaken the structure of democratic societies. The long-term consequences of that (heck, even short-term) could be much more severe.

This is one thing I don’t get about this narrative. At this point how do we know how permanent what you’re talking about is? And how much is due to Facebook vs. just generally the unexpected terrible combination of it becoming very easy to distribute information + the fact that humans seek out information that tells them what they want to believe. I’m not saying we shouldn’t criticize Facebook, or that they shouldn’t…

It's the algorithmic selection of the most shocking posts that aggrevates the problem. They know what ends up getting promoted, and they don't care about the damage.

Re: Facebook’s top execs ‘make tobacco executives look like Mr. Rogers’

#47

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

fatjokes wrote: post #8

Are you f-ing kidding me? Until 90%+ of FB users start dropping dead because of lung cancer then that statement is complete garbage. EDIT: a lot of people are taking my statement as meaning not to criticize Facebook. That is not it at all! It just means not to lose perspective. At least I still consider tobacco to be far worse, directly causing ~7M deaths annually with no visible benefit. EDIT 2: Genuine question: ha…

Facebook is implicated as a major cause of more than one recent genocide. That is, sadly, not hyperbole.

Re: Facebook’s top execs ‘make tobacco executives look like Mr. Rogers’

#48

Post by bilbo0s »

lallysingh wrote: post #31
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #9

Clickbait. I think the actual story was already posted a few days back. I'm pretty sure tabbaco has killed a few more people than Facebook, so this is a ridiculous comparison. Facebook does a lot for which it should be criticized, but it feels like we're just beating on a dead horse. It's also hilarious that someone would be so critical of Facebook all while including their share button in the same article. Apparentl…

> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-facebo... I don't think it's that far apart.

It's pretty far apart to be honest.

What FB and Suu Kyi do in Myanmar is terrible, but they would have to replicate the same genocide in every nation across the globe to match the body count of the tobacco guys.

(Which they may manage to do in the future. Who knows? But to date they are just not there yet to be perfectly frank.)

Re: Facebook’s top execs ‘make tobacco executives look like Mr. Rogers’

#49

Post by Puer »

_iyig wrote: post #11
fatjokes wrote: post #8

Are you f-ing kidding me? Until 90%+ of FB users start dropping dead because of lung cancer then that statement is complete garbage. EDIT: a lot of people are taking my statement as meaning not to criticize Facebook. That is not it at all! It just means not to lose perspective. At least I still consider tobacco to be far worse, directly causing ~7M deaths annually with no visible benefit. EDIT 2: Genuine question: ha…

I see what you're saying, but it's also true that cigarettes didn't fundamentally weaken the structure of democratic societies. The long-term consequences of that (heck, even short-term) could be much more severe.

I would absolutely disagree with that assertion. While we're hypothesizing about the long-term effects of FB on democracy, I would argue that generations of smokers that die early and impose a huge strain on an already overloaded healthcare system have a much greater effect on the health of our democracy. I think that at this point it's ridiculous to compare FB to those very real and significant effects.

Re: Facebook’s top execs ‘make tobacco executives look like Mr. Rogers’

#50

Post by dontreact »

chillacy wrote: post #42
dontreact wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. At the same time these large platforms have played a huge factor in the death of many local newspapers. Local journalism is pretty much no longer a viable career. And so no one is reporting on the actions of most state legislatures which is a big problem. The platforms have not really stepped in to fill this void. In the long term journalism as a whole may be at risk, leaving even larger and more i…

The internet has made the world a smaller place, I’m not sure local newscasts would have survived longer anyways just like local ironsmiths and cobblers disappeared in a world with a global supply chain.

My point is that the platforms haven’t replaced something important that the newspapers were doing, which came not from a profit motive but from a motive of journalistic duty. There is not much money to be made in raising awareness of how local government works. But it’s important for society.

Your examples are cases where global brands met the need exactly because the free market works well in those cases.

Just because there isn’t a lot market demand for information about local state legislatures doesn’t mean that this information is not important or valuable to collect and report. It’s pretty important to keep local government accountable.

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