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Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

nytimes.com

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Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#41

Post by qudat »

danans wrote: post #2

These e-scooters could be a really great way for many cities to decrease short-haul car dependency, but they really need to be off the sidewalks. A motor-propelled machine going 15 mph doesn't belong on the same surface as a baby stroller, a senior citizen, or a person with a disability. They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traff…

I disagree. Bike lanes are extremely dangerous for cyclists and the current implementation of bike lanes in this country are really just big automobile lanes.

It puts all the risk on the cyclist. I have had numerous friends get hit and run while riding bikes on bike lanes, most recently a friend died from it.

I'll happily receive any citations for riding my bike or e-scooter on the sidewalk, and take full responsibility for any accidents I get into. It's not even up for discussion in my mind.

In the UK: > In 2015, two pedestrians were killed and 96 seriously injured after being hit by a bicycle. But every year more than 100 cyclists are killed and more than 3,000 seriously injured on British roads

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cycle-safety...

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#42

Post by andys627 »

danans wrote: post #2

These e-scooters could be a really great way for many cities to decrease short-haul car dependency, but they really need to be off the sidewalks. A motor-propelled machine going 15 mph doesn't belong on the same surface as a baby stroller, a senior citizen, or a person with a disability. They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traff…

> They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place)

A bike lane really isn't safe enough to get people on bikes and scooters into it. It needs to be a separated cycle track like what is common in Copenhagen. This takes more space, but increases capacity of the whole road (the cycle track has more capacity than the driving lane it takes away).

There are a zillion other benefits too - more active/healthier population, higher retail spending along the cycle track (https://its.ucdavis.edu/inthenews/the-complete-business-case...), higher property values, only taking 30lbs of metal with you on every trip instead of 2000lbs, potentially local fuel source (food from nearby rather than oil or electricity from afar), etc etc etc.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#43

Post by wild_preference »

ummonk wrote: post #11
jonlucc wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my city, we have a small conundrum. The scooters move more like bikes than walkers, but the language on our bike trail system explicitly forbids any "motorized vehicles". Of course, reasonable people could argue that such a law can be ignored, but I know I'm risking a ticket if an officer so chooses. Also, bicyclists seem to seriously hate the scooters. I'm not entirely sure why, but it seems to be that they're ju…

Bicyclists don't want transportation systems that are more accessible to the general public.

People already walk in them. Might as well bring another vehicle into the mix to keep those pedestrians out!

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#44

Post by rhinoceraptor »

karpodiem wrote: post #34
poulsbohemian wrote: post #3

Would be really nice to see F turn around: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/f?ltr=1

Detroiter here - I'm off of Adams Ave. downtown, next to Grand Circus Park/Comerica. Ford needs - 1) Better styling. I just bought a Grand Cherokee, and despite the 2020 Ford Explorer being RWD, I would never consider a Ford vehicle. Their exterior/interior styling is bland. 2) An off-road sub brand to compete against Jeep. The upcoming Bronco/baby Bronco/Ranger is a start, but Jeep is making a killing with the brand…

I have no idea what I’m going to get when my 17 Focus ST dies, hopefully there will still be manual (or at least sporty electric) hatchbacks...

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#45

Post by gomox »

asaph wrote: post #18
hammock wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably got one with low battery. It's not possible to "overpower" them as you suggest because they have a governor that limits the top speed.

Even on a 100% charge, a typical e-Scooter used by Bird, Spin, etc. struggle on steep uphill climbs.

I used Limes in Prague recently and based on my experience on those mild hills I was actually wondering if they have different ones in San Francisco, because I don't see them being of much use there.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#46

Post by gomox »

komali2 wrote: post #33
asaph wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even on a 100% charge, a typical e-Scooter used by Bird, Spin, etc. struggle on steep uphill climbs.

You gotta kick a bit, I don't think they're meant to be fully driven on those hills. Just like ebikes - you're still pedaling.

You can't really kick these things on uphills (I've only used Lime scooters, but I'm assuming others are similar). They are very far off the ground for any practical kicking, and since it's the front wheel that is powered, you lose traction as soon as your weight moves backwards (as it does when you kick).

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#47

Post by 52-6F-62 »

danans wrote: post #2

These e-scooters could be a really great way for many cities to decrease short-haul car dependency, but they really need to be off the sidewalks. A motor-propelled machine going 15 mph doesn't belong on the same surface as a baby stroller, a senior citizen, or a person with a disability. They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traff…

I'm not sure if I agree with the bike lane point (versus street anyway), but I will say that after visiting SF for the first time a few weeks ago one of the first things I noticed about downtown was the number of scooters and scooter/motorbike parking everywhere.

You don't see much of anywhere near that much around Toronto.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#48

Post by imgabe »

komali2 wrote: post #30
notatoad wrote: post #22

>They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place) the problem is the existence of bike lanes. If public officials start saying "scooters belong in the bike lane", then they have to confront the fact that their cities have no cohesive network of bike lanes that can actually support a real journey. This has been acceptable up until now, because cyclists are weird and it's okay to tell them to just r…

> because cyclists are weird and it's okay to tell them to just ride in amongst trucks travelling 40mph. This is unsustainable. It's caused blowback from cyclists. "Fine, you want me to play in traffic, I'm going to start doing some dumb shit." I say this as a cyclist, I'm doing only 5 miles round trip but I do it every day. I see people blow red lights, weaving in and out of traffic, hopping onto the sidewalk, blast…

I also bike. Don't give me a bike lane? That's fine, I'll take the middle of the traffic lane. Honk all you like, I'm not going to give you room to try and squeeze between me and the oncoming traffic while I risk getting doored. Cars can wait.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#49

Post by freehunter »

Retric wrote: post #20
freehunter wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, a 3,000lb car going 35mph is far far FAR more than enough to injure or more likely kill a human on a scooter if they're forced onto the roads. If the only argument is one of how much damage would happen in the case of a collision, bikes and scooters belong with pedestrians and not with cars. We don't need to speculate what happens when a car hits a bicyclist, it happens every day and the common out…

If scooters can’t operate on sidewalks then they should be banned from sidewalks. Saying they must have somewhere safe is fine, just build bike lanes.

Flipping that around, if scooters can't operate safely on the road they should be banned from the road. Which effectively bans scooters and bicycles in any place where there is no bike lane.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#50

Post by ravenstine »

samcheng wrote: post #36
abrichr wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cyclists are weird ... e-scooters are for "normal people" Could you please elaborate on this? Why do you think so (or why do you think that is a widely held belief)? If anything I would have thought that it was the opposite.

This was clearly satire, but the idea is that only a certain subset of people are active enough to ride a bike. If e-scooters take off, that's a new/larger group of people traveling at 15mph. Infrastructure that was marginal for the small cohort of bicyclists will become obviously inadequate as people riding e-scooters, e-bikes, motor skateboards, etc. join them. As a bicyclist who wants more and safer bike lanes, I…

That's why it's aggravating to me how many cities insist on building everything at ground level. Cars? Ground level. Bikes and pedestrians? Ground level. Trains? Ground level, creating chaos at intersections. And now we have tons of scooters. Ground level, and causing chaos as people ride them without helmets and weave into car traffic.

Adding more ground level transit isn't ever going to be the solution, and widening lanes doesn't ever seem to work. Cities like LA need to stop being bought off by the developers and instead build larger versions of these for non-automobile traffic:

https://www.magneticmicrosphere.com/ckfinder/userfiles/image...

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