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Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

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Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#41

Post by specialp »

"So for now, the Pittsburgh native and father to young children is living with his mother" In the past that wasn't so much of an option. You had to survive. I grew up with parents working jobs like the one he eschewed. They wouldn't dare try to live with my comparatively much more wealthy grandma.

So now living with your parents into your 30s is like taking basic income. This is all fine if someone is truly doing this to invest in more education to get out of the unskilled labor market, but bad when it is just an excuse to be lazy. I too worked low wage jobs when I was a teen and in college to pay my way, I find that when people leave the upward trajectory by leaving school or their job for "something better" they end up becoming lazy and end up worse.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#42

Post by panarky »

It's not perplexing at all. People forget that the market for labor is just like other markets.

If you're selling a thing and the market price is lower than the thing is worth, then you don't sell it.

If the minimum wage kept up with the increase in worker productivity over the last 50 years, today's minimum wage would be about $19.50.

So workers who refuse to take dead-end jobs are simply rational economic actors refusing to sell a large fraction of their existence for a pittance.

If employers have job openings they can't fill, while workers are idle because they won't work so cheap, then shouldn't the market-clearing wage increase? If not, what's preventing it?

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#43

Post by RankingMember »

dpeck wrote: post #10
aaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define “good men”.

Same definition as it's always had. Either bring in money, do a good job caring for the home & family, or some combination those two. No one wants a partner, regardless of gender, that doesn't contribute.

By this definition, the example millennial male who is studying to become an EMT is on track to contribute but doesn't qualify as a "good man". Seems a little short-sighted.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#44

Post by supertrope »

dleslie wrote: post #14
athenot wrote: post #5

> Weary of long days earning minimum wage, he quit his job in a pizzeria in June. He wants new employment but won’t take a gig he’ll hate. So for now, the Pittsburgh native and father to young children is living with his mother and training to become an emergency medical technician, hoping to get on the ladder toward a better life. Perplexing? The opening of this article gives a pretty straightforward answer: people…

The angle here is that minimum wage does not offer sufficient flexibility and access to satisfactory growth opportunities. That's a _feature_ for employers, who do not desire turn-over and training costs, and an _anti-feature_ for employees, who desire a better life.

I don’t think employers cackle at the thought of employees being wage slaves. They are unwilling or think its impossible to offer a living wage so high turnover (e.g. 140% per annum) is just a cost they accept.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#45

Post by ehrtt »

Alex63 wrote: post #20

Some interesting things in this article. Given what appear to be changing attitudes to men ("long America’s economically privileged gender"), is this situation really surprising? When one considers diversity and inclusion goals, hiring more men seems like a lower priority. I was also amused by the comment, “I’m very quick to get frustrated when people refuse to pay me what I’m worth.” This seems like a conversation I…

> You're worth what the market is willing to offer you, not what you think you are worth.

This is an absurd statement, the market is not a god. It does not have a value system.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#46

Post by move-on-by »

athenot wrote: post #5

> Weary of long days earning minimum wage, he quit his job in a pizzeria in June. He wants new employment but won’t take a gig he’ll hate. So for now, the Pittsburgh native and father to young children is living with his mother and training to become an emergency medical technician, hoping to get on the ladder toward a better life. Perplexing? The opening of this article gives a pretty straightforward answer: people…

> All are missing out on a hot labor market and crucial years on the job, ones traditionally filled with the promotions and raises that build the foundation for a career

I agree with you. These jobs might have one day been filled with promotions and raises - but have now been turned into efficiency centers. Automation has drastically increased, required skills and training significantly reduced. There is no path up the chain from these types of jobs. In the absolutely best case, they can't be automated even further out of a job.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#47

Post by jimbokun »

athenot wrote: post #5

> Weary of long days earning minimum wage, he quit his job in a pizzeria in June. He wants new employment but won’t take a gig he’ll hate. So for now, the Pittsburgh native and father to young children is living with his mother and training to become an emergency medical technician, hoping to get on the ladder toward a better life. Perplexing? The opening of this article gives a pretty straightforward answer: people…

But why are women in the same age range employed at a higher rate than before the recession, but not the men?

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#48

Post by MIKarlsen »

roel_v wrote: post #36
MIKarlsen wrote: post #19

"If you get to the point where you’re turning 30, you’ve never held a real job and you don’t have a college education, then it is very hard to recover at that point." I've raised this point to a fair few of my friends and colleagues recently. I think it is becoming increasingly hard to contribute to society, because everything is so gosh-darn technical. Companies _scream_ for developers - but not junior developers, o…

"So if you're done with college/university (which is when you're around 25-30 y/o in Europe)," Uh, what? You're done with university (masters) at 22-23. Late 20's when you include PhD.

Where I'm from (Denmark), most people start university when they're 18-22, and then you have to do a bachelors degree (3 years) and a master degree (2 years). Often times, people spend more time on their degrees because they take extra internships. Based on the 50 people I had a some-what close relation to while I did my degree, most of them where 26-27 when they got their masters degree.

You can see a figure from ministry of education here (first figure - it shows the age of the starting student): https://www.dst.dk/pukora/epub/Nyt/2005/NR242.pdf

The title of the chart is translated into "Average age of new students", where the top part addresses bachelors-students from each of the 5 mayor areas (technical, societal etc), while the bottom part of the graph shows the vocational education system here.

After they start, they will use 5 years minimum to get their degrees. Bachelors are worthless in Denmark.

EDIT: I know the first article is from 2004. Here's a 2016 article that states that new students at the University of Copenhagen (largest in Denmark) had an avg. age of 22,7 in 2016, which was a year younger than the avg. age in 2015: https://uniavisen.dk/alderspraesidenter-eller-groenskollinge...

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#49

Post by ben_jones »

ravenstine wrote: post #34

> Men -- long America’s economically privileged gender It depends on how you look at it. Don't get me wrong, men have had lots of privileges, but they have long been expected to work. Those social expectations are rapidly disappearing, and somewhat shifting to women, and we're seeing rates of depression and suicide rise for women in roughly the same time frame. Calling it privileged is a very one-sided way of looking…

I'm looking at a $400 bill after insurance for a 15 minute doctor's visit. Nothing fancy he took my blood pressure and listened to my lungs and sent me on my way. I'm fortunate that I can easily pay this, but what if I was living paycheck to paycheck? It would crush me. When wealth is so fleeting as to be taken away by such a minuscule stroke of bad luck, why would people bother chasing it?

I'm literally going to have to "shop around" for my next appointment should I need one.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#50

Post by supertrope »

panarky wrote: post #42

It's not perplexing at all. People forget that the market for labor is just like other markets. If you're selling a thing and the market price is lower than the thing is worth, then you don't sell it. If the minimum wage kept up with the increase in worker productivity over the last 50 years, today's minimum wage would be about $19.50. So workers who refuse to take dead-end jobs are simply rational economic actors re…

Cue those who want to cut minimum wage and public assistance so unemployment is even more dire.
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