I wonder how this jives with security expert Bruce Scheiner's stance: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wirele...
jibes.
Firesheep usage leads to Idiocy
41–50 of 89 posts
Re: Firesheep usage leads to Idiocy
#42Anyone have ideas on getting it running on OS X? One downside to some (often interpreted) languages is that there isn't always an easy way to package them up into a single binary for user consumption.
I'm pretty sure you can install all the dependencies with macports, but you can't put the wireless card in monitor mode using the 'iw' command, because there's no iwtools on the mac AFAIK. And monitor (or promiscuous) mode is necessary.
Re: Firesheep usage leads to Idiocy
#43Idiocy indeed. While you may run this for altruistic reasons, and I think it's good to teach people about the dangers of unprotected browsing, running a script to automatically hijack and post to the Twitter accounts of everyone around officially makes you an asshole, IMHO. The fact that someone isn't wearing a belt doesn't mean they deserve a pantsing.
The fact that someone isn't wearing a belt doesn't mean they deserve a pantsing.
Perhaps not, but, to stretch your metaphor a bit, if someone's fly is open, they might appreciate having it pointed out to them.
Re: Firesheep usage leads to Idiocy
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one gets scared when you point out a flaw in the New York Times. (Except maybe the writer who is now at risk of getting fired.) Additionally, pointing out a flaw in a newspaper is not illegal. Impersonating someone is (or can be depending on what you do while impersonating them). Whether it is black hat or white hat wasn't my point. My point is that Idiocy aims to accomplish change by scaring people and getting me…
My point is that Idiocy aims to accomplish change by scaring people and getting media attention. That is the same thing that terrorism does For what it's worth, that's also the same thing that many politicians and lobby groups do.
I think that supports their argument.
Re: Firesheep usage leads to Idiocy
#45Idiocy indeed. While you may run this for altruistic reasons, and I think it's good to teach people about the dangers of unprotected browsing, running a script to automatically hijack and post to the Twitter accounts of everyone around officially makes you an asshole, IMHO. The fact that someone isn't wearing a belt doesn't mean they deserve a pantsing.
The fact that someone isn't wearing a belt doesn't mean they deserve a pantsing. Perhaps not, but, to stretch your metaphor a bit, if someone's fly is open, they might appreciate having it pointed out to them.
And how do you point it out to them? As discreetly as possible, or by shouting it to all their friends?
Re: Firesheep usage leads to Idiocy
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Didn't mean to imply I disagreed with your stance, just pointing out the relative security (unless someone else knows something) of running it. It probably is illegal, yes, and I won't personally run it, nor recommend anyone else does (as much as I've toyed with the idea of doing just such a thing by hand, at times). One could consider this civil disobedience, however, as it's not inherently harmful nor capable of sp…
I understand. Mainly I'm just worried that people aren't thinking things through completely when they make a tool like this freely available. Personally I expect that Firesheep will be used mostly by 4chan, script kiddies, and others who just want lulz. Idiocy is clearly an attempt to use the same concepts for good, but it is still mildly worrying from the point of view of the methods being used to accomplish the goa…
Could we not use "terrorist style" to describe things like this? I don't think anybody is going to get killed over this.
Re: Firesheep usage leads to Idiocy
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
By that definition, if I find a flaw in (as an example) the New York Times, and e-mail them explaining the flaw and how to fix it, I'm engaging in cyber terrorism. Shit, I remember when people would throw around the words "white hat" and "black hat", instead of "terrorism".
Actually, "Idiocy" is more akin to finding a flaw in the New York Times, and then using that flaw to change the headline of their front page. I'm pretty sure that would land you in jail if caught.
not all people in jail are terrorists.
Re: Firesheep usage leads to Idiocy
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
The fact that someone isn't wearing a belt doesn't mean they deserve a pantsing. Perhaps not, but, to stretch your metaphor a bit, if someone's fly is open, they might appreciate having it pointed out to them.
And how do you point it out to them? As discreetly as possible, or by shouting it to all their friends?
If half of their friends also have their fly open, shouting it might be a better option.
Re: Firesheep usage leads to Idiocy
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one gets scared when you point out a flaw in the New York Times. (Except maybe the writer who is now at risk of getting fired.) Additionally, pointing out a flaw in a newspaper is not illegal. Impersonating someone is (or can be depending on what you do while impersonating them). Whether it is black hat or white hat wasn't my point. My point is that Idiocy aims to accomplish change by scaring people and getting me…
My point is that Idiocy aims to accomplish change by scaring people and getting media attention. That is the same thing that terrorism does For what it's worth, that's also the same thing that many politicians and lobby groups do.
Terrorism is used by many groups. In the broadest definition terrorism is the systematic use of fear especially as a means of coercion.
Therefore, the spreading of FUD by politicians definitely fits under the umbrella of terrorism. In fact if you take out the media factor the United States commits terrorism all the time with its drones flying in the middle east. Terrorism is being used to fight terrorists. When a parent threatens a child with punishment for not changing their behavior it is terrorism.
As I said, you can debate whether it is possible to have "good terrorism" or terrorism for a noble cause. Sometimes fear seems to be necessary. If criminals and citizens weren't at least slightly afraid of the police and government the world would probably be a lot more dangerous.
Re: Firesheep usage leads to Idiocy
#50I don't like it that Firesheep is driving everyone to use HTTPS.
You cannot have multiple SSL certs on a single IP and you have to pay a significant amount to get a cert that won't pop up an annoying page which turns away most non-technical users.
There needs to be an alternative which just does key exchange and symmetric encryption without the identification.