The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean • Hacker News Board

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#41

Post by cyberferret » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 3:18 AM UTC

I love Singapore, and visit there often. The cleanliness is definitely one of the things that brings me back, even though I love travelling through most SE Asian countries (I was born in Malaysia).

However, I recall about 20 or 30 years ago, the cleanliness was much better, probably while Lee Kwan Yew was still in charge. I would see businessmen in suits stop and pick up cigarette butts in the street and bin them.

But in more recent visits, I notice locals walking past litter and butts more casually. It is still better than most cities, but I think the fastidiousness has worn off a little with the latest generation?

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#42

Post by sauravt » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 3:18 AM UTC

p1mrx wrote: post #38

I once wandered around Singapore for a few days, and their infrastructure is mostly great, except that I never encountered a single drinking fountain. Not in the airport, train stations, shopping centers, food courts, public buildings... Does everyone buy/carry water every day, or how do they survive?

It is normal in Asian countries to not have public drinking fountains. Water coolers in some shopping malls is as far as you'd get in terms of public water source.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#43

Post by philliphaydon » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 3:32 AM UTC

p1mrx wrote: post #38

I once wandered around Singapore for a few days, and their infrastructure is mostly great, except that I never encountered a single drinking fountain. Not in the airport, train stations, shopping centers, food courts, public buildings... Does everyone buy/carry water every day, or how do they survive?

Singapore is (I think) the only country in Asia that you can drink water from a tap. But even so, people here still boil water before drinking it.

So outside people will buy water even if a fountain was available.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#44

Post by gumby » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 3:33 AM UTC

I am always shocked when I go to Singapore because when I was a child in the 1960s Singapore was no different from any other southeast asian city: muddy river banks, discarded rubbish everywhere, boats unloaded by hand, and street hawkers (with amazing food) cooking food on gas rings from their bikes.

Love them or hate them, but you have to admit LKW and the PAP just got to work and transformed the place. But somehow managed to keep the good food (though the food in Ipoh remains the best).

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#45

Post by ronilan » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 3:34 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #30

ronilan wrote: post #3

What you should wonder is if this model is desirable in any term.

Generic ideological tangents are off topic on HN. You can't get much more generic (or ideological) than freedom-good-or-bad. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18333236 .

@dang - I don’t understand.

A: “X seems to have positive utility. I wonder if it is sustainable long term.”

B: “You should wonder if your utility function is suitable for any term.”

How is it ideological?

P.S - I never heard the term “idiological tangents” before. According to Google you are the only one using it. I’d say that’s a Wofelooperga.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#46

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 3:36 AM UTC

p1mrx wrote: post #38

I once wandered around Singapore for a few days, and their infrastructure is mostly great, except that I never encountered a single drinking fountain. Not in the airport, train stations, shopping centers, food courts, public buildings... Does everyone buy/carry water every day, or how do they survive?

[deleted]

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#47

Post by User23 » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 3:37 AM UTC

raincom wrote: post #4

The area of Singapore is 278 sq miles, approximately the size of 17 miles square. Whatever policies that work in such small high density places won't work in larger countries. However, one can try to decentralize as much as possible; such decentralization may not work in large countries either.

Scale is a huge issue in politics. The right kind of government for a city isn't the right kind of government for a continent spanning federation.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#48

Post by virmundi » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 3:42 AM UTC

echevil wrote: post #27

maxxxxx wrote: post #2

Singapore is an interesting case study how a well-run government that restricts a lot of freedoms can work remarkably well. I wonder if this model is sustainable long term.

My guess is that it will be more sustainable than government that restrict much less freedoms - people carry guns, have drugs, piss on the streets, destroy public properties and do all kinds of creepy things and government can’t really do much about it. How is that more sustainable

I'm confused. I carry a gun daily. I don't do drugs. I don't destroy public property, and I do all my creepy things in private. Having freedom does not mean you're a bad person. It means you are free to be who you are. Freedom allows you to see people's hearts. An iron fist shows you their fear. Given that the US is fairly sustaniable in a political sense (we average about 150 years between civil war, which is better than most EU countries), time will tell? Authoritarian systems don't seem to hold up with the ironman dies. It is an interesting idea to see what happens if you have an iron-committee.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#49

Post by jnaina » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 3:50 AM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #2

Singapore is an interesting case study how a well-run government that restricts a lot of freedoms can work remarkably well. I wonder if this model is sustainable long term.

I have 2Gbs fibre optic broadband with no Internet filtering. I can download all the porn I want, view any site, etc. Complete freedom of religion. Prostitution is somewhat tolerated and licensed within defined areas, if you are so inclined for that sort of activities. Although section 377A of the Penal Code of Singapore is a legislation which criminalises sex between mutually consenting adult men, it is not strictly enforced. The society has progressed to a point where gay relationships are a lot more prevalent and generally accepted.

Yes, there are some restrictions in terms of political activities and free speech. But, in my opinion they are a small price to pay for the generally safe/progressive/modern/clean society. Is it perfect? No, but still beats living in any other Asian society except perhaps Japan.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#50

Post by korantu » Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 3:51 AM UTC

echevil wrote: post #27

maxxxxx wrote: post #2

Singapore is an interesting case study how a well-run government that restricts a lot of freedoms can work remarkably well. I wonder if this model is sustainable long term.

My guess is that it will be more sustainable than government that restrict much less freedoms - people carry guns, have drugs, piss on the streets, destroy public properties and do all kinds of creepy things and government can’t really do much about it. How is that more sustainable

The standard reply would be - if the government controls everything and gets corrupted - it has the power to corrupt everything.

This is a worry - there is no feedback loop unless government makes sure it is.

On the other hand, if current government really can't control who will be elected next, then there is less chance that current government abuses power. And having armed citizenry reduces chances of government going totalitarian.. or so they say.