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SQLite Code of Conduct

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Re: SQLite Code of Conduct

#41

Post by crispyambulance »

pgeorgi wrote: post #38
crispyambulance wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, but for whatever reason the powers that be at sqlite sees a need to lampoon codes of conduct even though it doesn't apply to them. I don't see what they're getting out such an act. If CoC's don't apply to them, then may be they should shut-up about CoC's and focus more other things, like sqlite. Or, speak up about the CoC's in communities in which CoC's actually exist.

> If CoC's don't apply to them From the CoC page: "Having been encouraged by clients to adopt a written code of conduct" Under my interpretation (not sure if it's the right one - it might as well be satire): "OK, here's a written CoC we abide by", meeting customer demand. It's interesting that this thing existed for months and only now somebody noticed and created outrage.

    > It's interesting that this thing existed for months and only now somebody noticed and created outrage.
Most folks that use sqlite, would not stumble across that text because they just use the damn thing as-is. But it was raised on HN, so now it is fodder.

The sqlite folks could have just answered to these "clients": "No, a CoC does not apply to us because x, y, z". Instead, they chose to insert themselves into the fray with a fairly aggressive piece of satire as an open letter. It was very much their choice, and they've now gotten themselves a lot negative impressions because of HN exposure, I think.

Re: SQLite Code of Conduct

#42

Post by fatbird »

klohto wrote: post #34
crispyambulance wrote: post #22

Of course it is satirical but I think people forget that the CoC's that been gaining traction lately are themselves a response to a real problem. Yes, some CoC's may be fodder for satire and criticism because they cross the line when it comes to being excessively dogmatic. However, these things exist because online communities have been beset by hordes of assholes for a very long time. Many people feel excluded or ar…

What problem? We didn't need CoC for 20 years, why do we need it now?

CoCs have been needed for 20 years and more. Now that we're getting them, there's discomfort at the disruption to the status quo, but it's a status quo that desperately needs disruption.

Re: SQLite Code of Conduct

#43

Post by keldaris »

pgeorgi wrote: post #40
keldaris wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CoCs on their own solve exactly nothing, they're just a tool that's supposed to enable project leadership to solve certain issues more effectively. Whether they actually serve that function is an open question since the practice is still fairly new. I haven't seen any meaningful evidence one way or the other (feel free to provide some). While I'm sympathetic to the argument that sufficiently large projects should, on…

> since the practice is still fairly new "in tech". The CoC we're discussing here exists - as CoC - for Millenia. An even older example would be the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath , which might have been more appropriate as an example of a "code of work conduct", but "I swear by Apollo the Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the gods and goddesses" might rub some people the wrong…

I'm specifically talking about open source communities. I think the context of these social structures (spontaneous organization, lack of traditional coercive motivators (money, enforcement mechanisms, social pressure), the fact that many people are pseudonymous, the fact that most projects are effectively tyrannies, etc.) makes them sufficiently distinct from the classical examples you list to make any direct comparison very difficult.

Re: SQLite Code of Conduct

#45

Post by OldManAndTheCpp »

It is not obvious that this is satire. Mr Hipp (main contributor) links his homepage at http://www.hwaci.com/drh/. From that page, he links his wife (Mrs. Wyrick): http://www.hwaci.com/ggw/index.html. She has among her interests: http://www.hwaci.com/ggw/allerton.pdf "Church Music Resources".

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread: SQLite is "Open-Source, not Open-Contribution". In that context, an openly religious CoC does not seem out of the question.

Re: SQLite Code of Conduct

#47

Post by diplomatpuppy »

OskarS wrote: post #13
allanmacgregor wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Best I can tell is satire

47. Keep death daily before your eyes. Oh, don't worry SQLite, I do. I fucking hope it's satire. Even so, this page should be nuked from orbit. It's shocking that SQLite would allow such a page on their domain.

If you're curious - this practice is so you don't squander your life. Reminders of death are uncomfortable so we tend to avoid them - but they can properly spur us to life with vigor in the time we have.

When I was an athiest, I thought it was good advice at the time.

Re: SQLite Code of Conduct

#48

Post by pavel_lishin »

klohto wrote: post #34
crispyambulance wrote: post #22

Of course it is satirical but I think people forget that the CoC's that been gaining traction lately are themselves a response to a real problem. Yes, some CoC's may be fodder for satire and criticism because they cross the line when it comes to being excessively dogmatic. However, these things exist because online communities have been beset by hordes of assholes for a very long time. Many people feel excluded or ar…

What problem? We didn't need CoC for 20 years, why do we need it now?

Not having something isn't the same as not needing something.

"We didn't need X for Y years" is an excellent way of preventing progress, and/or gatekeeping. I feel like this has been covered pretty well online before, but I can expand my thoughts if you'd like.

Re: SQLite Code of Conduct

#49

Post by pavel_lishin »

g051051 wrote: post #46
julian-klode wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CoCs are not silly, they solve very important and real problems.

Such as?

From an administrative side: being able to point explicitly to rules that are being broken to shut down an endless "why is X a big deal" and "but he's doing Y and he's not banned".

From a user side: being able to see where the lines are, and being able to see an explicit reason for a punishment. Being able to point out when others are breaking explicit rules. Being able to see and point out hypocrisy.

This does require admins to actually follow the CoCs and to act on them, which I think a lot of people in this thread are actually bitching about. Everyone who says "CoCs don't do anything by themselves" are right, but seatbelts also don't do anything unless they're plugged in, but we should still have 'em in cars.

Re: SQLite Code of Conduct

#50

Post by pgeorgi »

crispyambulance wrote: post #41
pgeorgi wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If CoC's don't apply to them From the CoC page: "Having been encouraged by clients to adopt a written code of conduct" Under my interpretation (not sure if it's the right one - it might as well be satire): "OK, here's a written CoC we abide by", meeting customer demand. It's interesting that this thing existed for months and only now somebody noticed and created outrage.

> It's interesting that this thing existed for months and only now somebody noticed and created outrage. Most folks that use sqlite, would not stumble across that text because they just use the damn thing as-is. But it was raised on HN, so now it is fodder. The sqlite folks could have just answered to these "clients": "No, a CoC does not apply to us because x, y, z". Instead, they chose to insert themselves into the…

See http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Regarding-CoC-tp104277p1... for a complete rationale. For the point discussed in this part of the thread: "I published the currrent CoC after two separate business requested copies of our company CoC. They did not say this was a precondition for doing business with them, but there was that implication." and "One final reason for publishing the current CoC is as a preemptive move, to prevent some future customer from imposing on us one of those modern CoCs that I so dislike."
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