Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 76 posts

Re: Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

#41

Post by vkou »

ganeshkrishnan wrote: post #32
mrkstu wrote: post #26

I hope everyone who condemns the Saudis and those doing business w/them are doing the same with those doing so with China. China regularly disappears its citizens, and now openly is sending them by the hundreds of thousands to re-education camps. Xi and Prince Salman are two sides of the same coin and if you're comfortable with one and not the other, you're just virtue signaling. I'm just a IT guy at a business that…

And Australia: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/20/australia/nauru-children-... Children have died in the detention center with government refusing them even medical care. A 16 year old died few months back waiting for his parents. No media or press is allowed on the island. To top it off one of their senator wanted "final solution" for their immigrants and this week the government voted for "it's ok to be White" beca…

And while we're making a list, we should also include another notable middle eastern state, that's a bit infamous for being an apartheid regime.

Re: Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

#43

Post by dmode »

mrkstu wrote: post #26

I hope everyone who condemns the Saudis and those doing business w/them are doing the same with those doing so with China. China regularly disappears its citizens, and now openly is sending them by the hundreds of thousands to re-education camps. Xi and Prince Salman are two sides of the same coin and if you're comfortable with one and not the other, you're just virtue signaling. I'm just a IT guy at a business that…

There are some similarities, but there are VAST differences between China and Saudi. In China, women's rights and conditions are far better than Saudi. There are no restrictions on women driving or taking the subway or wearing whatever they want or working wherever they want. China is miles ahead of Saudi in equality. I am not sure about LGBT rights in China, but I will go out on a limb and say that they are probably better than Saudi. And then the spread of Wahhabism. China is not funding thousands of Madrasas in foreign lands to spread extremist views. China is also investing massively in renewable energy. China has its issues, but let's not conflate them with Saudis.

Re: Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

#44

Post by creaghpatr »

dmode wrote: post #43
mrkstu wrote: post #26

I hope everyone who condemns the Saudis and those doing business w/them are doing the same with those doing so with China. China regularly disappears its citizens, and now openly is sending them by the hundreds of thousands to re-education camps. Xi and Prince Salman are two sides of the same coin and if you're comfortable with one and not the other, you're just virtue signaling. I'm just a IT guy at a business that…

There are some similarities, but there are VAST differences between China and Saudi. In China, women's rights and conditions are far better than Saudi. There are no restrictions on women driving or taking the subway or wearing whatever they want or working wherever they want. China is miles ahead of Saudi in equality. I am not sure about LGBT rights in China, but I will go out on a limb and say that they are probably…

Sounds like Wahhaboutism.

Re: Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

#45

Post by ArchTypical »

dmode wrote: post #43
mrkstu wrote: post #26

I hope everyone who condemns the Saudis and those doing business w/them are doing the same with those doing so with China. China regularly disappears its citizens, and now openly is sending them by the hundreds of thousands to re-education camps. Xi and Prince Salman are two sides of the same coin and if you're comfortable with one and not the other, you're just virtue signaling. I'm just a IT guy at a business that…

There are some similarities, but there are VAST differences between China and Saudi. In China, women's rights and conditions are far better than Saudi. There are no restrictions on women driving or taking the subway or wearing whatever they want or working wherever they want. China is miles ahead of Saudi in equality. I am not sure about LGBT rights in China, but I will go out on a limb and say that they are probably…

> China is miles ahead of Saudi in equality

That really has nothing to do with the issue of totalitarianism. Some people are treated equal, some people are eliminated, so you get more equality? I think China is just as immoral as SA.

Re: Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

#46

Post by matrixmultiply »

thatoneyouthrow wrote: post #3

Throwaway on this one for obvious reasons. Everyone makes mistakes and it is clearly a mistake to take money from repressive regimes. The #metoo movement should take a look at some of these companies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia

#metoo is focused on witch hunting.

Re: Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

#47

Post by nradov »

dmode wrote: post #43
mrkstu wrote: post #26

I hope everyone who condemns the Saudis and those doing business w/them are doing the same with those doing so with China. China regularly disappears its citizens, and now openly is sending them by the hundreds of thousands to re-education camps. Xi and Prince Salman are two sides of the same coin and if you're comfortable with one and not the other, you're just virtue signaling. I'm just a IT guy at a business that…

There are some similarities, but there are VAST differences between China and Saudi. In China, women's rights and conditions are far better than Saudi. There are no restrictions on women driving or taking the subway or wearing whatever they want or working wherever they want. China is miles ahead of Saudi in equality. I am not sure about LGBT rights in China, but I will go out on a limb and say that they are probably…

While not at all equivalent to extremist Wahhabi madrassas, the Chinese government did set up the Confucius Institute to act as their propaganda arm in colleges around the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Confucius_Institu...

Re: Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

#48

Post by xemoka »

matrixmultiply wrote: post #46
thatoneyouthrow wrote: post #3

Throwaway on this one for obvious reasons. Everyone makes mistakes and it is clearly a mistake to take money from repressive regimes. The #metoo movement should take a look at some of these companies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia

#metoo is focused on witch hunting.

This is ridiculous. The #metoo movement is not focused on "witch hunting", there are many different people associated with this "movement" and there is no real guiding person or organization that is focused on it. Individuals may be trying to take advantage of it, but don't throw everything out because of a couple rotten actors (that you perceive).

Re: Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

#49

Post by KerrickStaley »

I think employees at companies that are backed by Saudi Arabia (via Saudi's Public Investment Fund or indirectly via Softbank's Vision Fund) should feel empowered to push back against upper management and ask them to refuse further investment (easy) and/or work with other investors to buy out Saudi's share (hard).

If you work at a company that's backed by Saudi Arabia, the proceeds of your work are funneling up into the hands of an increasingly autocratic and persistently repressive government. You have the power to do something about it.

Disclosure: I work at Lyft, which has among its investors Al-Waleed bin Talal. Al-Waleed bin Talal is a member of the Saudi royal family but (apparently) does not have much influence in the current regime.

Re: Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

#50

Post by ozmodiar »

mrkstu wrote: post #26

I hope everyone who condemns the Saudis and those doing business w/them are doing the same with those doing so with China. China regularly disappears its citizens, and now openly is sending them by the hundreds of thousands to re-education camps. Xi and Prince Salman are two sides of the same coin and if you're comfortable with one and not the other, you're just virtue signaling. I'm just a IT guy at a business that…

I am not comfortable with either country (and likewise have no business in either).

It’s where you say we shouldn’t act against one unless we act against both (or else be labeled virtue signalers) that this becomes whataboutism. It is not about the degree of their offences, or that ones is better/worse or significantly different, but paralyzing action or discussion unless it can always be dolled out equally every time that is the mark of whataboutism.

Post reply on HN